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The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

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Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#81

Post by giantg2 »

jjoonathan wrote: post #56
cortesoft wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it more about the inelasticity of housing supply? When demand goes up, prices go up?

Just who do you think relentlessly votes, lobbies, and politicks to ensure that housing supply is inelastic? The tooth fairy?

I think it's more about distribution than straight supply. That distribution is largely constrained by employer location (job availability). Lots of cheap housing in Appalachia since manufacturing, coal, and steel has left. There just aren't many jobs, and employers don't want to move there to change that (vicious cycle).

Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#82

Post by nights192 »

pnutjam wrote: post #76
StefanWestfal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain? I would assume that only a part of the increase in wages would go to rent. I live in Norway where the minimum salary is high. Rents are too but the average person has to spent less time working to pay for housing. Do you think the hours a person needs to work to pay for housing would stay the same if the wage increase?

That's just another guy trying to sabotage the working class, ignore the FUD about rents.

I don't believe that's a very good-faith interpretation; what makes you believe that, man?

Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#83

Post by datavirtue »

shockeychap wrote: post #15

I found this to be many words with little information. It largely boils down to "when Amazon increases wages, other employers follow suit, to varying extents." There was almost nothing about the myriad of other effects, including things like inflation, effects on already higher wage earners, effects on automation, and more. They touched on the increase in unemployment from competitors, but that was it.

Sky is blue. Details at 11.

Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#84

Post by matsemann »

mostertoaster wrote: post #47
ethanbond wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the most critical consequence: rent. Rent goes up. Landlords get richer, minimum wage earners go back to poverty. Pretty obvious cycle. High paying employer moves somewhere? Rent goes up. Normal employer pays more? Rent goes up.

I haven’t raised my tenants rent since 2018 when I bought the rental. I just had him pay what he had been paying. Maybe you should be a landlord and help break the cycle?

Becoming a landlord means more buyers for the same houses, thus pushing the housing prices instead, possibly taking them off the market for other's that want to own their own.

Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#85

Post by xxpor »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #58
ethanbond wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the most critical consequence: rent. Rent goes up. Landlords get richer, minimum wage earners go back to poverty. Pretty obvious cycle. High paying employer moves somewhere? Rent goes up. Normal employer pays more? Rent goes up.

America is 3,531,905.403 square miles large, and the majority of us choose to live in under 100,000 of it. Maybe that too also contributes to these issues. You may fashion yourself to be virtuous enough to not charge more when you so easily can, but we shouldn't assume everyone will be.

Right, we should build enough housing that the market takes care of keeping housing cheap.

Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#86

Post by malfist »

ethanbond wrote: post #27
shockeychap wrote: post #15

I found this to be many words with little information. It largely boils down to "when Amazon increases wages, other employers follow suit, to varying extents." There was almost nothing about the myriad of other effects, including things like inflation, effects on already higher wage earners, effects on automation, and more. They touched on the increase in unemployment from competitors, but that was it.

Or the most critical consequence: rent. Rent goes up. Landlords get richer, minimum wage earners go back to poverty. Pretty obvious cycle. High paying employer moves somewhere? Rent goes up. Normal employer pays more? Rent goes up.

I don't think it's as obvious or causal as you imply. If every wage increase resulted in a corresponding increase in rent to force people back into poverty it would never make sense to increase minimum wage, or even wages at all.

But that's not the case is it? Wages stagnate, increase or decrease all the time without changes in rent. Rent goes up without changes in wages all the time.

Sure, a local across the board increase in wages might drive up demand and might cause some portion of rent increase, but it's also just as likely to drive up housing prices as people get out of the rental market.

Throwing up your hands and saying "we can't pay them more because landlords will take it all" is disingenuous.

Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#87

Post by ethanbond »

vanveenada wrote: post #80
mostertoaster wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t raised my tenants rent since 2018 when I bought the rental. I just had him pay what he had been paying. Maybe you should be a landlord and help break the cycle?

this is an example of "price stickiness." People selling goods tend to let the price stay at whatever level it's currently at longer than is strictly rational. Because prices tend to be sticky, wage-driven inflation tends to result in real gains for wage-earners.

(Temporarily)

Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#88

Post by sovnade »

vultour wrote: post #29
pydry wrote: post #7

This paper is a good rebuttal to talking points like this tweet that crop up from time to time: https://i.redd.it/b57t1w5jllb61.jpg (I was trying to look up a similarly awful article referencing EMTs earning $minwage + $2 I saw a while back but googlefu is failing me)

This is one of the worst arguments one could ever make. Literally the same as telling someone your salary and they go "wow, you're so overpaid, I make less than half that!". No motherfucker, you should be making more money. It's insane that instead of advocating for higher salaries people will attempt to drag each other down.

But this is the goal, and it works. The people who own the media don't want wages to go up. Lobbyists, anti-union groups, etc...it's much easier to get 2 lower income people mad at each other than to justify their own income to them. Outrage and anger is an easy sell and unfortunately that's what the 24/7 for-profit news cycle is.

Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#89

Post by matsemann »

StefanWestfal wrote: post #64
ethanbond wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the most critical consequence: rent. Rent goes up. Landlords get richer, minimum wage earners go back to poverty. Pretty obvious cycle. High paying employer moves somewhere? Rent goes up. Normal employer pays more? Rent goes up.

Could you explain? I would assume that only a part of the increase in wages would go to rent. I live in Norway where the minimum salary is high. Rents are too but the average person has to spent less time working to pay for housing. Do you think the hours a person needs to work to pay for housing would stay the same if the wage increase?

(just a nitpick, but we don't have a general minimum salary / minstelønn in Norway. Unions however, have managed to establish rules binding everyone in certain industries to some minimum)

Re: The Effects of Major Retailers Raising Their Minimum Wages

#90

Post by malfist »

xyzzy4747 wrote: post #10

When people get paid more, the prices of everything go up, including other people's wages. Inflation is often a self-reinforcing cycle.

Sure, but are those increases proportional?

I don't mind playing an extra 50 cents for a big mac if it means the person serving it to me makes enough at the end of the day to support themselves.

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