Live data from Hacker News

A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

unite.ai

11–20 of 75 posts

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#11
post #9

I think it's good that well-founded institutions publish well-crafted datasets for everyone else. It helps small teams develop their model. The problem here is, though, most publishers don't accept papers if the new proposal isn't backed by benchmarks by the well-known datasets. Even though it can be a competitive approach for a specific field, they reject the paper anyway if it's not performed well on the datasets.

Do they really reject them though? In my experience publishers will publish anything, if anything they should have higher standards not lower.

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#12

Too bad they don't cite the paper "The Benchmark Lottery" (M. Dehghani et al, 2021) ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2107.07002 ) > The world of empirical machine learning (ML) strongly relies on benchmarks in order to determine the relative effectiveness of different algorithms and methods. This paper proposes the notion of "a benchmark lottery" that describes the overall fragility of the ML benchmarking process. The benchma…

Seems like a distinct issue to me, though there are obvious parellels and similar outcomes.

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#13
post #9

I think it's good that well-founded institutions publish well-crafted datasets for everyone else. It helps small teams develop their model. The problem here is, though, most publishers don't accept papers if the new proposal isn't backed by benchmarks by the well-known datasets. Even though it can be a competitive approach for a specific field, they reject the paper anyway if it's not performed well on the datasets.

Do they really reject them though? In my experience publishers will publish anything, if anything they should have higher standards not lower.

For brand name journals and conferences, yes they do. My experience with those is a very high rejection rate.

There is a good reason to reject if you are not using a standard dataset. How can you compare the results of two approaches, to say natural language inference of whether one sentence entails another, without results being tested on the same dataset?

I think one thing overlooked in the conversation is that many papers start with a standard baseline and then use another dataset to establish additional results.

In my experience in nlp also, journals and conferences tend to establish datasets of their own when they make a call for submission. Often these are called the "shared task" track. ACL has operated this way for decades.

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#14
post #9

I think it's good that well-founded institutions publish well-crafted datasets for everyone else. It helps small teams develop their model. The problem here is, though, most publishers don't accept papers if the new proposal isn't backed by benchmarks by the well-known datasets. Even though it can be a competitive approach for a specific field, they reject the paper anyway if it's not performed well on the datasets.

It's a pattern matching problem. It takes a lot of work and too many unknowns when dealing with "new benchmark sets" or ... just any other set.

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#15
So, like humans, training an AI takes lots of curated data (education, journalism, political savvy and avoidance of bias or corruption). It took a very long time to get that corpus ready and available for humanity (say 10,000 years).

Now we have exploded that corpus to include everything anyone says online, and we are worried that the lack of curation means we cannot be sure what the models will come back with.

Its rather like sending our kids out to find an education themselves, and finding three come back with nothing, two spent years learning from the cesspit of extremism, two are drug addicts hitting "more" and one stumbled into a library.

Just a thought but I dont think journalism is really about writing newspaper articles. It really is about curating the whole wide world and coming back with "this is what you need to know". Journalism is the curation AI needs...

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#16
Ugh the title of the article.

Here's the paper that this article is recapping - "Reduced, Reused and Recycled: The Life of a Dataset in Machine Learning Research", https://openreview.net/forum?id=zNQBIBKJRkd

Abstract: "Benchmark datasets play a central role in the organization of machine learning research. They coordinate researchers around shared research problems and serve as a measure of progress towards shared goals. Despite the foundational role of benchmarking practices in this field, relatively little attention has been paid to the dynamics of benchmark dataset use and reuse, within or across machine learning subcommunities. In this paper, we dig into these dynamics. We study how dataset usage patterns differ across machine learning subcommunities and across time from 2015-2020. We find increasing concentration on fewer and fewer datasets within task communities, significant adoption of datasets from other tasks, and concentration across the field on datasets that have been introduced by researchers situated within a small number of elite institutions. Our results have implications for scientific evaluation, AI ethics, and equity/access within the field."

The reviews seem quite positive, if short. On a skim it looks very solid, offering an empirical look at the dynamics of benchmark usage that IMO seems unprecedented, so I'm not surprised it got positive reviews and accepted.

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#17
I come from the econometrics end of things and Paul Romer (Nobel Prize winner) put it well:

'A fact beats theory every time...And I think economists have focused on theory because it's easier than collecting data.'

When I read this article this is exactly what I thought of -- modeling/researchers always focus on the low hanging fruit which is sitting in their comfy chair in their ~200 year old university developing hyper-complicated models rather than going out and collecting data that would answer their questions.

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#18
When someone used the word “overfitting” I usually take that to mean that a model has begun to enter the phase where further improvement is leading to lower generalization.

In fact, as far as I can tell, we are not overfitting in this sense. When I have seen papers examine whether progress on, let’s say, imagenet, actually generalizes to other categorization datasets the answer is yes.

What we have been seeing is that the slope of this graph is flattening out a bit. Whereas in the past a 1% improvement on imagenet would have meant a 1% improvement on a similarly collected dataset, nowadays it will be more like .5% (not exact numbers just using numbers to illustrate what I mean by diminishing returns.)

If an institution or a lab can show that progress on their dataset -better- predicts the progress on a bunch of other closely related tasks, then as researchers become convinced of that, they will switch over. Right now there isn’t a great alternative because it’s not easy to create such a dataset. Scale is critical.

Imagenet really was on the right track as far as collecting images of nearly every semantic concept in the English language. So whatever replaces it will have to be similarly thorough and broad.

In my opinion the biggest weakness of currently existing datasets is that they are typically labeled once per image with no review step. So I think the answer here isn’t

“Let’s get researchers to use smaller datasets from smaller institutions”

It would be more like

“We have to figure out a way to get a bigger, cleaner version of existing datasets and then prove that progress on those datasets is more meaningful”

The realistic way this plays out is that some institution in the “cartel” releases a better dataset and then lots of small labs try it out and show that progress on that dataset better predicts progress in general.

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#19

Too bad they don't cite the paper "The Benchmark Lottery" (M. Dehghani et al, 2021) ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2107.07002 ) > The world of empirical machine learning (ML) strongly relies on benchmarks in order to determine the relative effectiveness of different algorithms and methods. This paper proposes the notion of "a benchmark lottery" that describes the overall fragility of the ML benchmarking process. The benchma…

Seems like a distinct issue to me, though there are obvious parellels and similar outcomes.

Because AIs are relatively narrowly focused, they suffer greatly from limited data sets. More often than not, an AI will simply memorize test data rather than "learning".

This impacts the benchmarking process, so I think it's relevant.

Re: A cartel of influential datasets are dominating machine learning research

#20
Also interesting in this context: this recent paper [1] analyzed some of the most popular datasets and found numerous label errors in the test sets. For example, they estimated at least 6% of the samples in the ImageNet validation set were misclassified, with surprising consequences when comparing model performances using corrected sets.

[1] Pervasive Label Errors in Test Sets Destabilize Machine Learning Benchmarks, https://arxiv.org/pdf/2103.14749.pdf

Post reply on HN