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WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

faq.whatsapp.com

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Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#81

Post by philliphaydon »

indigo945 wrote: post #69
philliphaydon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's App is not secure.

This is not true, unlike Telegram, WhatsApp has a reasonable model for E2EE and it's enabled by default. The UI is lackluster and it really should scream more when contacts' public keys change (to prevent MITM attacks), and it doesn't protect metadata such as your contact list at all, but all of that is still better than Telegram, which offers no encryption for group chats at all.

> This is not true

The fact that I recieve advertising in FB for things discussed in a 1:1 chat in whats app, minutes after discussing them, means it's not secure. E2E is end to end, not end to FB to end.

Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#82

Post by mPReDiToR »

duskwuff wrote: post #42
toast0 wrote: post #17

I worked at WhatsApp between 2011 and 2019. This FAQ had very specific instructions for how to opt out of sharing that were only available for a limited amount of time. The FAQ serves as documentation of the product and there's no need to keep online specific instructions that can no longer be followed. In order to opt out, you needed to have an existing account and take specific actions around the time you agreed to…

> I don't recall specific deadlines for accepting the 2016 TOS Based on what I see in the archived article, it looks like accepting the TOS was a "roadblock" popup in the app -- you couldn't continue using the app without accepting the terms. Any accounts which hadn't accepted the terms after two years could have simply been closed for inactivity.

I never accepted the ToS and still get the popup ~20% of the times I open the client.

Everything is still working.

I just hit "<" when it pops up.

Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#83

Post by PennRobotics »

invalidname wrote: post #47
littlestymaar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier this year, when the change was announced and the media talked about it, I saw a ton of people starting to use signal (non-tech neighbours, my plumber, headhunters I still have in my contact list, etc). At this point I asked my mother to install it and to my surprise a lot of her friends where actually on Signal. It's still not the majority but at this point there is a significant user base for signal, much mo…

Yes. But the whatsapp groups are impossible to move. I created the same group on signal. Nothing, two people move. Even in my office, a technocratic environment for sure... People won't move. We need a stronger motivator to move them or we need to make moving "seamless".

I chuckled when our daycare had a lengthy discussion about data privacy and, twenty minutes later, asked every parent to join the WA group.

Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#84

Post by [deleted] »

johnisgood wrote: post #75
barbazoo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck onboarding one's grandma to any of those.

> Good luck onboarding one's grandma to any of those. Huh? Just do it. Install it, then help her if you have to, similarly to how you introduced WhatsApp (or whatever else) to her, for example. They may not like change, but if they are capable of using another piece of IM software, they are capable of using any of the mentioned ones. I installed Linux for many people who have never seen Linux their entire life. On so…

[deleted]

Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#85

Post by mercacona »

philliphaydon wrote: post #81
indigo945 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, unlike Telegram, WhatsApp has a reasonable model for E2EE and it's enabled by default. The UI is lackluster and it really should scream more when contacts' public keys change (to prevent MITM attacks), and it doesn't protect metadata such as your contact list at all, but all of that is still better than Telegram, which offers no encryption for group chats at all.

> This is not true The fact that I recieve advertising in FB for things discussed in a 1:1 chat in whats app, minutes after discussing them, means it's not secure. E2E is end to end, not end to FB to end.

May be the other E has been googling about the thing you discuss. Metadata is an important flaw, they don't need to compromise the E2E communication to track/profile you.

Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#86

Post by mattowen_uk »

philliphaydon wrote: post #62
baby wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whatsapp is more secure

What's App is not secure.

Not true. WhatsApp uses the same E2E encryption as Signal.

The only place it doesn't use it, is when you are talking to WhatsApp Business users, as the business API needs access to the messages.

Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#87

Post by Someone »

nextaccountic wrote: post #23
toast0 wrote: post #17

I worked at WhatsApp between 2011 and 2019. This FAQ had very specific instructions for how to opt out of sharing that were only available for a limited amount of time. The FAQ serves as documentation of the product and there's no need to keep online specific instructions that can no longer be followed. In order to opt out, you needed to have an existing account and take specific actions around the time you agreed to…

The news here is that you can't choose to not share data with Facebook anymore.

It’s not practical for most, but I think you can, by moving to the European Region.

Comparing https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/updates/terms-of-service/?lan... to https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/terms-of-service-eea/?lang=en, the EU version removes

- “Ways To Improve Our Services. We analyze how you make use of WhatsApp, in order to improve our Services, including helping businesses who use WhatsApp measure the effectiveness and distribution of their services and messages. WhatsApp uses the information it has and also works with partners, service providers, and affiliated companies to do this”

- “We offer specific features and services to businesses and other organisations such as providing them with statistics regarding their use of our Services.”

- “Affiliated Companies. We are part of the Facebook Companies. As part of the Facebook Companies, WhatsApp receives information from, and shares information with, the Facebook Companies as described in WhatsApp's Privacy Policy, including to provide integrations which enable you to connect your WhatsApp experience with other Facebook Company Products; to ensure security, safety, and integrity across the Facebook Company Products; and to improve your ads and products experience across the Facebook Company Products. Learn more about the Facebook Companies and their terms and policies here.”

Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#88

Post by maltalex »

This thread is full of people suggesting to just switch everyone, including grandma, to Signal/Matrix/Telegram/XMPP.

This is naive.

First of all, I'm a big fan of Signal and Matrix, but it is hard to overstate how much more polished WhatsApp is in comparison. There's just a lot more friction for grandma. There are also considerably fewer resources behind the alternatives, so things like this [0] happen (tl;dr - it took Signal over seven months to fix a bug in the Android client that would sometimes send messages to the wrong person!!)

Second, the problem doesn't end with grandma. It's the network. There are literally billions of people on WhatsApp and there are places where WhatsApp is the default method of communication for everything. Schools and kindergartens use it for announcements and to communicate with parents. Service providers give out a WhatsApp number to contact support. Friends and family are all on WhatsApp in established groups with a long history that everyone wants to keep. Trying to switch everyone over is futile. Not being on WhatsApp isn't an option. It is that big.

[0]:https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/10247

Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#89

Post by rakoo »

PennRobotics wrote: post #83
invalidname wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But the whatsapp groups are impossible to move. I created the same group on signal. Nothing, two people move. Even in my office, a technocratic environment for sure... People won't move. We need a stronger motivator to move them or we need to make moving "seamless".

I chuckled when our daycare had a lengthy discussion about data privacy and, twenty minutes later, asked every parent to join the WA group.

I joined a few orgs fighting for a systemic change, understanding the decisions process and be a part of it, more collective life in support of all the discriminated people and a more ecological way of life. Left-leaning stuff.

All the public communication happens on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Private comms are on whatever those platforms have, or Telegram and Discord. Only a minority have Signal and most don't want to hear about it.

When I tell them there's an internal issue because you can't change the world and give more power to the people by using anti-users tools like those, they look at me like I'm from another planet. There's a long road ahead.

Re: WhatsApp has removed answer to “how do I choose not to share data with FB”

#90

Post by hiq »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #60
mukundesh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is developed by a non-profit and is open source, they have a higher chance of staying independent. With the cost of cloud services dropping hopefully there is less of the back-pressure to monetise

I’ve always assumed signal was a honeypot. They publish some source code but obviously we can’t verify the actual code running on iOS or (I assume) Android devices am I right? It seems like publishing open source could be a smoke screen. When they push code to devices they could link in alternate libraries that do whatever they want. They may even be able to push special code to targeted phones, avoiding detection by…

> They publish some source code but obviously we can’t verify the actual code running on iOS or (I assume) Android devices am I right?

No, they have reproducible builds.

Everything else you said apply even more to other apps, not sure why you think Signal is more suspicious in that regard. But with reproducible builds and the .apk they have on their website, you can check that the source matches it every time you update, which is not something you can do with most other apps.

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