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Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

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Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#261

Post by infinite8s »

INTPenis wrote: post #255
cassianoleal wrote: post #82

Many years ago I had a job offer at Badoo in the UK. After many rounds of going back-and-forth with the contract, me trying to better understand certain clauses, them going back to the lawyers, etc. I told them I'd be happy to sign if they removed the caluses that stated pretty much anything I created on or off hours belonged to them. They went back to the lawyers and came back to me saying that this is not the first…

Have to add my own anecdote to yours because this type of shifty behaviour is apparently common. I was not hired as a developer, more like devops. But I ended up creating a lot of code. And through sheer principle I did it all open source. Created public repos of everything and then private branches for our internal Git. Fast forward 7-8 years and we're using our parent orgs system to manage salary, vacation and stuf…

What kind of principle lets you open source code you created at your employer? Or are saying you were employed as DevOps but wrote lots of code in your free time?

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#262

Post by anonymousiam »

I signed away all IP rights to Teledyne (my second job) in 1980. I've worked for three companies since then, and never had to sign anything like that. I'm pretty sure it's unenforceable, but the thing I signed basically said that anything I invent from that point forward, even after leaving Teledyne, would belong to them.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#264

Post by some-more-info »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #157
AlexCoventry wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say they're "inspired by" Badoo libraries. That's not enough to call them derivative works, at least for copyright purposes.

Right! But they were developed while the author was working for Badoo/Bumble. You can't develop something "inspired by" your day job, while working the day job in parallel, and then claim it isn't related to the day job.

The question seems to be whether it is allowed to create what is effectively a competitor framework (on your own volition and without authorization from your employer, as in the case of MVIKotlin vs MVICore) under your own name (brand), potentially in your free time, but based on designs of an open-source framework managed/developed/maintained by your employer in employees' time.

And even if it is allowed, can your employer claim ownership on the basis that your work is derived from employer/company work.

However, I think this is unprecedented (I can't think of any similar cases regarding reclamation of IP), and we'd have to be actual lawyers to know the answer. I'm curious to see where this case will go.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#265

Post by _6lik »

White_Wolf wrote: post #240
_6lik wrote: post #228

This thing has been bugging me the first time signed an employment contract years ago. So from what I understand is that everything I do on conpany property (that includes coding in a pub but on the company laptop) belongs to the company. So what I do is to first code it (any new idea that I'm working on) at home on my personal setup (including cloud an all). Then I release everything on a Apache V2 + MIT combo with…

Personally I don't use the comp laptop for my own stuff. I remote into my machine/network at home from my personal phone. DP over usb-c works wonders with a BT keyboard. As a side note: I don't publish anything. My wife on the other hand does. It's been like that for over 10 years now. EDIT: Forgot to mention that I ended up doing this after a previous employer wanted to grab a load of VBA modules. Big pain the back…

Your charged your phone in your office? There, Gotcha! You used "company resources".

Believe it or not, lawyers will put arguments like these and the judge will accept those as valid reasons.

btw, I have a similar setup (I don't work on it during office time inside the office, though) with a minor difference. I vnc/ssh to my aws setup rather than my home. This way my laptop lives longer and wife doesn't bicker about electricity bills.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#266

Post by INTPenis »

infinite8s wrote: post #261
INTPenis wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to add my own anecdote to yours because this type of shifty behaviour is apparently common. I was not hired as a developer, more like devops. But I ended up creating a lot of code. And through sheer principle I did it all open source. Created public repos of everything and then private branches for our internal Git. Fast forward 7-8 years and we're using our parent orgs system to manage salary, vacation and stuf…

What kind of principle lets you open source code you created at your employer? Or are saying you were employed as DevOps but wrote lots of code in your free time?

Both kinda. There is nothing in my contract saying that what I create is owned by my employer. Likely because of mergers and because I wasn't hired for a developer role. If you're hired today the contract will absolutely say that they own everything.

And most of the stuff I write has a use outside of work, even if it's just for myself to learn something. So that's why in 90% of cases I start with making something open source and just use it at work.

So it's no different than me using someone elses open source code, it's just written by me, both on and off duty.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#267

Post by _6lik »

Uehreka wrote: post #234
_6lik wrote: post #228

This thing has been bugging me the first time signed an employment contract years ago. So from what I understand is that everything I do on conpany property (that includes coding in a pub but on the company laptop) belongs to the company. So what I do is to first code it (any new idea that I'm working on) at home on my personal setup (including cloud an all). Then I release everything on a Apache V2 + MIT combo with…

IANAL, cannot comment on the legality, but as far as I’m concerned the comment about the department being too dependent on you is the most salient point of your entire post. There’s a whole universe of lawsuits and actions that can be filed and are not filed because companies calculate that they’ll extract a better return from a “live and let live” approach. There’s probably an ocean of open source that is in a work…

hehe. Yeah that is indeed a salient clause there. Especially since I'm highly underpaid. Both me and my employer knows that finding my replacement is going to be tricky. Sucks money wise but gives me a great work life balance. :-D

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#268

Post by cyberpunk »

infinite8s wrote: post #261
INTPenis wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to add my own anecdote to yours because this type of shifty behaviour is apparently common. I was not hired as a developer, more like devops. But I ended up creating a lot of code. And through sheer principle I did it all open source. Created public repos of everything and then private branches for our internal Git. Fast forward 7-8 years and we're using our parent orgs system to manage salary, vacation and stuf…

What kind of principle lets you open source code you created at your employer? Or are saying you were employed as DevOps but wrote lots of code in your free time?

DevOps, Free Time?

Ehhhh? We spend our free time drinking and sleeping to forget the horror…

THE HORROR.

;)

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#269

Post by _6lik »

comex wrote: post #242
_6lik wrote: post #228

This thing has been bugging me the first time signed an employment contract years ago. So from what I understand is that everything I do on conpany property (that includes coding in a pub but on the company laptop) belongs to the company. So what I do is to first code it (any new idea that I'm working on) at home on my personal setup (including cloud an all). Then I release everything on a Apache V2 + MIT combo with…

It depends on the exact wording of your employment contract. If it only covers work you did with company property, you're lucky. As far as the law goes, in California (per Labor Code section 2870), employment agreements are allowed to assign the employer IP rights (including copyrights and patent rights) to inventions that satisfy any of the following: - "[Use] the employer’s equipment, supplies, facilities, or trade…

Ohh yes.. These contracts are always maximalist. That's why I never touch areas where my company can even remotely claim involvement. But these are extremely important points that must be always keep in mind by everyone who wants to contribute in open-source.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#270

Post by aaron695 »

I would think you personally could be sued by people who contribute to your open-source libs that you don't own.

Your employer owns your code and IP, including on your own time, you can't siphon off their IP from the workplace to yourself through your clever loophole of it's my time and equipment. This is not rocket science... and lot's of companies will allow you to work on your own stuff, just get it in writing, else they own it, or you have to go to court to prove it's not their IP, what a pain, multidisciplinary is a thing, it's not as simple as it's a different topic to my company.

So you have no right to open source their code. So you are misleading other people who contribute to your 'fake' open source code. That's fraud and you are not on their time, so it's personal.

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