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Vegetable Oil for Lubricating Chainsaws (2008)

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Re: Vegetable Oil for Lubricating Chainsaws (2008)

#131

Post by seoaeu »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #51
seoaeu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A key piece of advice in performance optimization is to profile first. The same should apply to environmentalism. Some interventions have orders of magnitude more impact than others, and we shouldn’t pretend otherwise

This is one of those times when programming analogies don't work. Ecosystems are diabolically complex and nonlinear. A small perturbation might be okay one year and collapse everything the next, depending on a thousand other factors. It's good to try, but it would be a terrible policy to mandate.

That sounds like an excuse to completely ignore any evidence and just try whatever interventions you feel like. A far better approach would be to quantitatively evaluate the different possible options, and then take the one most likely to have the biggest impact. Maybe you pick the wrong one due to some complex effect you didn’t account for, but it is still better than picking at random!

Re: Vegetable Oil for Lubricating Chainsaws (2008)

#132

Post by jessaustin »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #108
jessaustin wrote: post #69

Lubricating a chain is one of the least demanding tasks we have for oil. Unlike in the crankcase of an engine or in the pumps of a hydraulic system, there is very little pressure or temperature involved. Unlike e.g. bicycles, chainsaws have oilers that constantly feed additional liquid onto the chain, so the lubricant doesn't even have to adhere that well. (The best "oil" for a bike chain is actually wax since it adh…

Chainsaw chains actually do need fairly good lubrication. The chain can run ~60mph, snugly against the bar. Metal-on-metal.

For some definition of "snugly". It's really easy to tighten a chain so much that the saw won't run. Loosen it a bit, and the saw cuts fine yet it's easy to pull a bit of the chain out of the slot (the latter with the saw off). At least, that's the case for the cheap/old saws that I've used...

Don't worry I'm not running any saw without bar oil. Or rather, used motor oil, since I have plenty of that.

Re: Vegetable Oil for Lubricating Chainsaws (2008)

#133

Post by meristohm »

meristohm wrote: post #104
qbasic_forever wrote: post #33

Could you engineer a chainsaw that doesn't need lubrication? Maybe a dynamic tensioner that pulls the chain taught instead of riding on a frame? Or what about rethinking the design entirely and using a long screw with cutting teeth all along it (no metal on metal moving parts)?

A Warhammer 40K vibro-blade?

Edit: or an oscillating multi-tool, though the manual for the one I have says it’s only for short jobs to reduce risk of overheating. Also, be careful of repetitive stress injury. There are some models that reduce vibration on the user end.

Re: Vegetable Oil for Lubricating Chainsaws (2008)

#135

Post by int_19h »

stopagephobia wrote: post #81
int_19h wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with chainsaw oils specifically, but there's a similar trend in gun lubricants, where many (non-military) ones are vegetabe oil blends with additives that are supposed to prevent gumming etc; I suspect these are very similar, if not the same compounds. There is still an ongoing debate on whether these are good enough etc. On one hand, some people swear by them, and non-toxicity is especially nice whe…

Tbh I wouldn't worry much about toxicity compared to the shit in GSR. Anecdotally I've never tried it but some people have tried something vegetable and it went sticky anyway. Cleaning guns regularly is enough of a pain in the ass already without maybe having to before going out shooting. I'd also never use it in a CCW or something ready for home defense because of that risk.

FireClean was notorious for trying to shut up a guy who disclosed that it's basically just canola oil with additives. But even so, there are many people who use it without it gumming up. When it happens, it's usually when you store a gun lubricated without using it for a long time.

Re: Vegetable Oil for Lubricating Chainsaws (2008)

#136

Post by AlotOfReading »

seoaeu wrote: post #131
AlotOfReading wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those times when programming analogies don't work. Ecosystems are diabolically complex and nonlinear. A small perturbation might be okay one year and collapse everything the next, depending on a thousand other factors. It's good to try, but it would be a terrible policy to mandate.

That sounds like an excuse to completely ignore any evidence and just try whatever interventions you feel like. A far better approach would be to quantitatively evaluate the different possible options, and then take the one most likely to have the biggest impact. Maybe you pick the wrong one due to some complex effect you didn’t account for, but it is still better than picking at random!

I'm not sure how you got from "it's a good idea to try, but terrible to mandate universally" to "do anything you feel like", but it's a very uncharitable interpretation of what I said.

My point is that restricting yourself solely to the particular set of things you can understand quantitatively with all the real world practicalities that entails is limiting. Other than that one word, we're in complete agreement.

Re: Vegetable Oil for Lubricating Chainsaws (2008)

#137

Post by sethherr »

User23 wrote: post #65
sethherr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WD40 is a penetrant, not a lubricant, I don’t know any Mechanics who use it. Definitely will debate lubricants for days, but no one who is in the industry uses standard WD40

WD40 is absolutely a lubricant. The WD40 is not a lubricant thing just needs to die already. Of course it’s not the best lubricant for every job. In fact it’s probably not the best lubricant for any job, but it’s a good enough lubricant for many jobs. It’s also a penetrant and water displacer. Versatile products usually aren’t the absolute best choice for a given use case, but that doesn’t make versatility bad.

From Wikipedia:

> WD-40 is an American brand and the trademark name of a water-displacing spray

… and the definition of “water displacing spray” is “penetrating fluid”

It definitely is an oil, it definitely lubricates. But we normally name things by their primary purpose.

Re: Vegetable Oil for Lubricating Chainsaws (2008)

#138

Post by gorgoiler »

hedora wrote: post #129
gorgoiler wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Enough to flow over the base of the cast iron pan without any gaps. When you heat the pan you can see the water bubble out of the iron pores. I let it cool, wipe it out, and hang it up.

I just use a few drops of canola oil, wipe it down, then heat it up enough for any water to start evaporating. By the time it cools, it’s dry. Unless I’m missing something, this uses ~ 1000x less oil. It also avoids build up of oil. I’d expect your cast iron to become sticky / blistered over time, though I haven’t tried the oil you use.

> 1000x

Impressive estimate!

My 25cm wide cast iron of mine just absorbed 0.185g of sunflower oil.

Apparently that's a layer 4 microns thick, or 1500x less than what the quarter inch I put in the pan:

  $ units '(1inch/4) / ((0.185g / (921kg/m^3)) / (pi*(25cm/2)^2))'
  Definition: 1551.7849
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