Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half • Hacker News Board

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#81

Post by roel_v » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 7:58 AM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #41

I flew a few weeks ago and dialogued (argued? - tried to be good natured about it!) with the boarding staff at 3 different gates about boarding processes. I suggested they try windows first, then middle seats, then aisle seats. 2 out of the 3 argued back that the way they were doing it had been 'proven' by some study some years back by... either a Finnish airline, or some studies in Arizona - I honestly can't remembe…

Thing is that the boarding staff has as much say about this (and as much interest in improving it, for the most part) as the janitor has in what sort of flooring is in the building he's maintaining.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#82

Post by roel_v » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 8:00 AM UTC

joeyh wrote: post #64

stretchwithme wrote: post #7

Imagine how much boarding time could be slashed if robots handled the baggage. The line stops moving when people are trying to store their bags, even if stepping aside for a moment would significantly reduce delays for others.

If the airlines cared about this problem, they could eliminate much of it by dropping the checked baggage surcharges. Enormous bags that barely fit or whose owners can't lift them was IIRC not as much a problem 12 years ago, when checked luggage was free.

I think the delays in boarding are cheaper than what they need to pay the airport for the luggage handling.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#83

Post by roel_v » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 8:02 AM UTC

arturadib wrote: post #26

njharman wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Monte Carlo to understand proved, not understood.

You're still missing the point. It doesn't matter.

No, you are the one missing the point. It's not about mixing first class and economy, it's about how to board within those groups, or maybe about finding ways that improve efficiency while still thinking about the different classes.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#84

Post by tripa » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 8:36 AM UTC

lojack wrote: post #38

arturadib wrote: post #9

Classic example of "cracking a nut with a sledge hammer". You don't need Monte Carlo to understand that boarding first rows is less efficient, or to come up with a much more efficient procedure. (And this is coming from a Monte Carlo lover). What you do need is biz savvyness to understand that rows are ordered by passenger value (first and biz class first, followed by premium, platinum, frequent flyers, etc). These p…

> You don't need Monte Carlo to understand that boarding first rows is less efficient, or to come up with a much more efficient procedure. Such as boarding from both the front cabin door and the rear cabin door?

Adding boarding doors costs money too.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#85

Post by corin_ » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 8:43 AM UTC

hermannj314 wrote: post #80

______ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of the reason that people could justify the expense of first class is exactly this -- the ability to sit there with a smug look while the rest of the plane exasperatedly waits to be seated.

Not to diverge too much from the topic. At JFK, the first class passengers have a priority queue through the security system as well. I flew through JFK once on a Holiday (4th of July) and TSA was so understaffed that they barely had enough staff to handle the 1st class passengers that were arriving. So as if waiting in security lines were not enough, imagine waiting in a security line that was actually getting longe…

I've seen that in several airports, and it isn't the TSA that cares. The airport owners will have done deals with the airlines, and the TSA's job isn't to decide who goes in what order, it's to make sure that whoever goes through isn't breaking any laws. So if the airport says first class passengers go first, that's who the TSA check first.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#86

Post by rmc » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 8:51 AM UTC

I don't think this'll work. Airlines who have the most to gain from a short boarding time (budget airlines) have another approach, where they do not assign seats. Individual passengers are motivated to board quickly because they don't want to be sat next to a big fat person, or they want to stay with their group.

Ryanair has an average turn around time (time between when the plane lands to when it takes off again) of 25 minutes. I've been passed through the gate and waiting at the door before the plane I've to travel on has landed.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#87

Post by zacharycohn » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 8:55 AM UTC

DaveMebs wrote: post #33

kemayo wrote: post #3

Boarding by blocks starting at the front is ridiculous. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to think of a worse way to board a plane. And yet somehow every time I fly that's how it happens. Maybe it's just that my company chooses horrible airlines. The article mentions that assorted methods of boarding were tried, though it only goes into detail about "the Steffen method". I wonder what the difference between blocks-from-th…

I don't think that boarding back to front is the necessarily an obvious win here. One thing you will see on flights is that people in the back often place their overhead bags in a compartment near the front. As they do not plan to access this during the flight, it causes them no trouble and saves carrying the bag back and forth. The downside, of course, is that people in the front quickly run out of overhead space wh…

You could discourage this behavior by keeping overhead compartments closed when passengers board the plane. As they reach their seats, then they open a compartment for their bag. Once everyone is seated, staff closes all the compartments.

I think the added time/social pressure having to open a compartment would be enough to stop most people who do this.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#88

Post by jamesbkel » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 9:05 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #30

amalcon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least one U.S. airline (I forget which) briefly used a transparent scheme to work around this: the first class rows were boarded first, and from there was back to front.

Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I fly a few times a year and I thought this was how approximately every airline did things since roughly the dawn of time. They always start off with "first class, elite status members, families with small children, etc.", then once that phase is over they fill in from back to front.

My flight travel has lessened considerably over the past 2-3 years, but until then I'd witnessed that to be standard practice.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#89

Post by hessenwolf » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 9:08 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #58

aurelianito wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first part is easy, color code the ticket (e.g. first red, then blue, etc). The second issue is trickier, but it happens now anyway. I would say that they already know how to handle it.

Colour coding the ticket is not trivial - current monochrome printing is easy with thermals. Ever run a colour printer in an office? It's a nightmare to manage just in an of itself. Then there's a lot of investement in creating a system that works across all models of planes. It's doable, but it's not trivial. Then on top of that is the issue that despite all this, a lot of people ignore what's on the tickets anyway…

Erm, odd rows and even rows?

Also, Ryanair have a 'priority boarding' ticket and do this all the time, so it's not a big deal.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#90

Post by yardie » Wed, Aug 31, 2011, 9:23 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #58

aurelianito wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first part is easy, color code the ticket (e.g. first red, then blue, etc). The second issue is trickier, but it happens now anyway. I would say that they already know how to handle it.

Colour coding the ticket is not trivial - current monochrome printing is easy with thermals. Ever run a colour printer in an office? It's a nightmare to manage just in an of itself. Then there's a lot of investement in creating a system that works across all models of planes. It's doable, but it's not trivial. Then on top of that is the issue that despite all this, a lot of people ignore what's on the tickets anyway…

The airlines I've flown with actually do enforce it. At least for the first and business, and small children. If your group isn't called they'll ask you to stand aside so that group can go. Some people really push it and the crew would rather not get in a confrontation and let them pass.