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Web3 Is Bullshit

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#31

Post by implfuture »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #14

I think many people’s postive Web3 experience has been signing a transaction with Metamask as a proof of identity, at least that’s the most obvious magic I’ve seen, the notion that I can interact with a website without registering an account with email and 2FA etc etc feels futuristic and a good step toward whatever the metaverse is, allowing me to have a consistent identity across platforms. But can’t this be accomp…

You can do passwordless login already with WebAuthn. It's just a matter of sites integrating it. https://webauthn.guide/

Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#32

Post by drdeca »

okareaman wrote: post #7
carlosdp wrote: post #4

> On a compute basis, blockchain networks don’t scale except by becoming the very same plutocratic and centralized systems they allegedly were designed to replace. That sentence right there is when I stopped reading and realized the author doesn't understand the technology they are criticizing. The word "plutocratic" is linked to the Wikipedia definition for Proof of Stake. PoS is not meant to increase scalability, i…

> the author doesn't understand the technology they are criticizing I've been following Stephen Diehl and he seems to have a greater understanding than most, even if he is consistently bearish on the technology and I'm not always in agreement. I don't see the issue you are having: adjective: plutocratic relating to or characterized by government by the wealthy. Proof of stake (PoS) protocols are a class of consensus…

>> On a compute basis, blockchain networks don’t scale except by becoming the very same plutocratic [...]

> The word "plutocratic" is linked to the Wikipedia definition for Proof of Stake.

> PoS is not meant to increase scalability

carlosdp isn't saying "because PoS isn't plutocratic, the claim 'can only scale by becoming plutocratic by using PoS' doesn't hold", Rather, carlosdp is saying that "because PoS isn't the thing being proposed for scaling, but is instead for different things, the claim 'can only scale by becoming plutocratic by using PoS' doesn't hold".

Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#33

Post by jazzyjackson »

yannoninator wrote: post #23
jazzyjackson wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the use of “conflict of interest” here, the author is expressing an opinion, plainly explaining which “side” they are on, no other context required. It’s not as if the author is trying to pass legislation or close a business deal without disclosing how they’ll benefit. Like my sibling says, that the author puts their money where their mouth is by placing bets against crypto only makes their opinion…

Wouldn't a media interview or someone debating Diehl be even more credible? The public can make their minds up when presented with both sides of the argument rather than one side on Twitter.

I dont know that convincing the public was the intention of the blog, the author seems resigned that they are preaching to their choir. Not everything has to be about winning people over, I enjoyed the piece as a rant that resonates with me, puts my vague impressions into prose.

Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#34

Post by shiohime »

I wish that people writing articles talking about how horrible web3 is tried something other than Ethereum lol. I'm fairly certain that if people's first web3 experience is something that actually works and doesn't cost hundreds of dollars for minor transactions they won't be as put off.

I get downvoted everytime here I bring it up but seriously if people tried something like Solana today compared to Ethereum I'm fairly certain they'd have a much better experience. Yeah, it's currently more centralized, but that really is minor compared to actually being able to use the ecosystem and explore what kinds of applications and products are possible on web3 without the unacceptably high costs and low tx throughputs that Ethereum as an L1 offers. It's no wonder that people are upset with web3 when their first experience is on ETH.

A fundamentally simple approach of using private keys (wallets) as identification for auth purposes is huge, and we're still really early imo as we explore the possibilities with Web3.

Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#35

Post by diveanon »

crocodiletears wrote: post #30
diveanon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly this community is just an echo chamber of bad takes when it comes to web3. Kind of hard to recognize a problem when your salary is dependent on propagating it.

What are the best resources for learning about the current state of web3 projects? Most of what I encounter with respect to it seems like marketing copy, without good summaries of the pros and cons that come with the different technologies and their roadmap. There's clearly a lot going on in the space. But for someone who's at best adjacent to it, it's hard to sort the wheat from the chaffe.

For a pretty great introduction on how to structure the FE of a web3 app I would take a look at PancakeSwaps GitHub, they have open sourced almost all of their code and it is pretty well written.

Many projects start as clones of that repo.

As far as use cases are concerned the best source of information has been and always will be the community itself.

All reputable projects produce white papers and they are usually more than happy to discuss questions and concerns in their community discords / telegram.

Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#36

Post by otterley »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #17
Barrin92 wrote: post #12

"The Ethereum virtual machine has the equivalent computational power of an Atari 2600 from the 1970s except it runs on casino chips that cost $500 a pop and every few minutes we have to reload it like a slot machine to buy a few more cycles. That anyone could consider this to be the computational backbone to the new global internet is beyond laughable. We’ve gone from the world of abundance in cloud computing where t…

Is this what the struggles of the transition from scarcity to post scarcity looks like? Building systems that simulate scarcity to generate the illusion of value and to front run that value?

Yes, because it’s the only way to generate “wealth” in a world full of plenty. Humans, like most creatures, have a biological imperative to try to outdo one another in order to reproduce.

Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#37

Post by kinakomochidayo »

shiohime wrote: post #34

I wish that people writing articles talking about how horrible web3 is tried something other than Ethereum lol. I'm fairly certain that if people's first web3 experience is something that actually works and doesn't cost hundreds of dollars for minor transactions they won't be as put off. I get downvoted everytime here I bring it up but seriously if people tried something like Solana today compared to Ethereum I'm fai…

It's not really minor to worry about funds being inaccessible for who knows how long when Solana is down.

I'd rather go with Polygon or Arbitrum for now since it's fast, and wait until zkEVM like zkSync is out. Same with StarkNet. The quick and cheap transactions of Solana with Ethereum's decentralization is what I'm looking for, and that'll only be possible with zk rollups.

Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#38

Post by toomuchtodo »

otterley wrote: post #36
toomuchtodo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this what the struggles of the transition from scarcity to post scarcity looks like? Building systems that simulate scarcity to generate the illusion of value and to front run that value?

Yes, because it’s the only way to generate “wealth” in a world full of plenty. Humans, like most creatures, have a biological imperative to try to outdo one another in order to reproduce.

The Tyranny of the Hierarchy.

Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#39

Post by shiohime »

kinakomochidayo wrote: post #37
shiohime wrote: post #34

I wish that people writing articles talking about how horrible web3 is tried something other than Ethereum lol. I'm fairly certain that if people's first web3 experience is something that actually works and doesn't cost hundreds of dollars for minor transactions they won't be as put off. I get downvoted everytime here I bring it up but seriously if people tried something like Solana today compared to Ethereum I'm fai…

It's not really minor to worry about funds being inaccessible for who knows how long when Solana is down. I'd rather go with Polygon or Arbitrum for now since it's fast, and wait until zkEVM like zkSync is out. Same with StarkNet. The quick and cheap transactions of Solana with Ethereum's decentralization is what I'm looking for, and that'll only be possible with zk rollups.

Polygon's a pretty good chain, but I have had issues with it before with essentially a traffic jam where my tx got locked up in a queue and took 30 minutes to process. But it's nice to be able to use the chain and it is quite cheap.

Arbitrum is pretty expensive per tx still though right? I haven't used the chain too much because the native bridge takes about a week to get funds over IIRC.

And Solana's only been down for a day like once I believe.

Re: Web3 Is Bullshit

#40

Post by scottiebarnes »

Barrin92 wrote: post #12

"The Ethereum virtual machine has the equivalent computational power of an Atari 2600 from the 1970s except it runs on casino chips that cost $500 a pop and every few minutes we have to reload it like a slot machine to buy a few more cycles. That anyone could consider this to be the computational backbone to the new global internet is beyond laughable. We’ve gone from the world of abundance in cloud computing where t…

To me this is rhetoric that conveniently ignores the sole advantages of blockchain and distributed computing.

Blockchains don't exist to be fast, efficient, or scalable. They exist to be decentralized, permissionless, and censorship resistant.

> People are trying to move from a world in which compute resources are efficient and almost limitless to a world of scarcity because they want to build an economic system where you can trade your fortnite skins for online currency

Actually, no one's doing this. You've created a strawman argument. Netflix and Youtube aren't moving their hosting to the blockchain. Google's not storing database shards on IPFS. What people are trying to use blockchains for is the creation and persistence of digital property. Blockchains are expressly better at provenance because records cannot easily be altered, compared to a centralized service.

> Creating economic ownership schemes of things that nobody needs to own because they're not scarce in the first place.

Congratulations, you just defined western capitalism.

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