Live data from Hacker News

U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

reuters.com

551–560 of 651 posts

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#551
post #531

> NSO Group said in a statement on Thursday that it did not have any indication their tools were used but canceled the relevant accounts and would investigate based on the Reuters inquiry. Why would they cancel accounts without knowledge of wrongdoing?

> Why would they cancel accounts without knowledge of wrongdoing? I’m not saying that they don’t have that knowledge, and I really don’t mean to offend or be rude, but if the US government asks something of you, you tend to comply wether it’s reasonable or not. I think it’s naive to think of ourselves as living in a just world. Post 9/11 the CIA abducted European citizens with the knowledge of our governments. In mor…

> I think it’s naive to think of ourselves as living in a just world.

The US military entered a foreign nation without their knowledge or authorization, abducted a resident, took the resident out to sea, placed a bag over their heads, put concrete shoes on that resident, and then dumped them overboard with no witnesses other than the "Seal Team" carrying out the order.

No trial. No witnesses. Only abduction, seclusion, and murder.

That's not justice. Those are Mafia Tactics. ___

Does this remind anyone of anything? A Mr. Al. A Mr. Al Capone perhaps? That's right. One of the world's most infamous gangsters, mobsters, crimelords, did this very thing to individuals that Capone didn't want talking to the press, the government, or anyone else that would listen.

This is mob-boss behavior, and the US Government does this now.

Oh, how about the unlawful imprisonment of 100s of detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba?

Secret courts, whose authority is far-reaching with no citizen oversight whatsoever.

Yeah the US Federal Government, since 9-11, is a bunch of mobsters with guns. There is no difference in the way our Federal Government acts now, and how 1920s and 1930s mobsters act.

Any human being that doesn't recognize the similarity is deluding themselves into believing so.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#552

Wow, Israeli's spying on their main sponsor?? Espionage is part of the political territory but hopefully this sets precedent to a change of optics. (Which probably not since Russia does it boldly for fun at this point).

Nobody claimed in the article that this is a case of Israel spying on the US. That would be quite a jump.

But it’s only one or two steps removed = Israeli company, acting with the approval and protection of the Israeli state, enabled and facilitated spying on the US by a third party.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ally" is probably too weak a word for the relationship we have with Israel. Probably no other country has this much influence on our politics. Not even the UK or Canada, who we share close cultural and linguistic bonds with. Israel is like the Taiwan of the Middle East, meaning it's a useful partner to us in terms of maintaining a separation between the West and some perceived enemy (Muslims in this case, the Chines…

The Taiwan analogy is pretty flawed here. > Israel is like the Taiwan of the Middle East, meaning it's a useful partner to us in terms of maintaining a separation between the West and some perceived enemy (Muslims in this case, the Chinese in the case of Taiwan). Is 'separation' a euphemism for 'preventing invasion'? Because threat of that is #1 thing keeping cross-strait relations tense. Mainland China could easily…

> Is 'separation' a euphemism for 'preventing invasion'? Because threat of that is #1 thing keeping cross-strait relations tense. Mainland China could easily offer Taiwan a better deal than they get by being closely aligned with the US. Their reluctance to do so keeps US influence in the region, and after a while one can't help if it's deliberate.

I don't quite follow. Are you saying China purposely gives Taiwan a raw deal just to deliberately spite the US? Why would they do that? I think I'm misunderstanding you.

> Also Israel gets a much better deal than Taiwan. The US gives military aid to Israel, where as Taiwan has to petition the US government - their only significant supplier - for the right to even buy weapons. Better hardware too, despite Israels poor track record in passing US military tech to China.

Yeah, for sure. But our support of both countries (and others like them) pisses other countries off. IMO we have no business being either world police or world arms market, especially in some of the most volatile quagmires in the world. We make our own enemies because of our supposed friends. These places only have strategic value to us so long as we desire to remain the global hegemon, with tentacles everywhere. Let go of that weird military-industrial-hentai complex, and there's no reason for us to artificially prop up these countries. Especially Israel. The IDF can more than take care of themselves. Taiwan is going to fall sooner or later anyway, but why is that our business? We force our enemies to go on eternal arms races against us because we've shown them we're incapable of minding our own business after WW2. It should not be our responsibility to provide world security using our people, our equipment, our money.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm waiting for the day that the US declares a foreign corporation as an "enemy combatant" It’s particularly interesting to watch as the company is based in a country that is a very close ally.

Ignorant question: is Israel literally an ally of the US? I know they are not in NATO or 5 Eyes, and I don't think they have some other close agreement, like US and Japan.

Despite not being in 5 eyes, Israel does get special treatment in the form of raw intelligence data from the US.

>The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals.

>According to the agreement, the intelligence being shared would not be filtered in advance by NSA analysts to remove US communications.

>While NSA documents tout the mutually beneficial relationship of Sigint sharing, another report, marked top secret and dated September 2007, states that the relationship, while central to US strategy, has become overwhelmingly one-sided in favor of Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-...

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many groups, including nation states in the Middle East who would like to destroy Israel and the Jewish people. This is not hyperbole, it’s public policy. And it’s not just words, Israel has been attacked repeatedly by countries intent on its destruction. There are some people inside the US, and outside it, who feel that allowing that to happen would be unacceptable. The western world does not want another…

But the question is, what makes it more unacceptable than the destruction of other countries, countries who also have enemies, who are not such close allies? "Feel that allowing that to happen would be unacceptable" is the loaded phrase that holds all the content in that description. The US is not giving that much military aid to every country that has such enemies.

Arguably, genocide anywhere should be confronted and prevented (though of course it never is, because the compassion of our species is quite limited).

In the modern era, arguably few have suffered as much as the Jews, in large part due to their historic lack of a homeland and safe haven. That's not to excuse modern Israeli policy, and I find it atrocious that they treat Palestine this way especially because they know what it's like on the other side.

But at the end of the day, most countries that "fall" would just be assimilated into their conquering cultures. The fall of Israel would be another Holocaust. I doubt many of their people would survive at all, given the severe hatred much of the world has for them, especially in that region.

I don't think we should be arming Israel, but that's only because they can take care of themselves. Their military is so far and away above their enemies' that they could easily destroy every single country around them if they so chose. We don't need to stay involved there any longer.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#556
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s be clear, comments critical of the Israeli government are NOT anti-Semitic. In fact, there are plenty of Jews who are critical of the Israeli regime. The above comment appears to be conflating criticism of the Israeli government with the Jews as a race/religion.

We all know how these arguments ultimately end up attacking the jew as a race/religion as a whole. These comments, indeed, are antisemtic- however nuanced. The "international jew" question is one that has somehow transitioned into anything related in the slightest to Jewish influence in the government of the US. If someone were to say, "Hitler did nothing wrong" would that be true? No! He lost, the only thing he did…

>Anti-semetism is not acceptable

Agree.

>and the most shameful expression of ignorance one can pro-pound in this day and age.

Disagree.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ally" is probably too weak a word for the relationship we have with Israel. Probably no other country has this much influence on our politics. Not even the UK or Canada, who we share close cultural and linguistic bonds with. Israel is like the Taiwan of the Middle East, meaning it's a useful partner to us in terms of maintaining a separation between the West and some perceived enemy (Muslims in this case, the Chines…

The comparison is also flawed in that Korea at least makes cheap and good stuff.

Israel should learn that lesson. The way to American hearts is through our phones! Worked for Nokia and Samsung.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#558
post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would they cancel accounts without knowledge of wrongdoing? I’m not saying that they don’t have that knowledge, and I really don’t mean to offend or be rude, but if the US government asks something of you, you tend to comply wether it’s reasonable or not. I think it’s naive to think of ourselves as living in a just world. Post 9/11 the CIA abducted European citizens with the knowledge of our governments. In mor…

> I think it’s naive to think of ourselves as living in a just world. The US military entered a foreign nation without their knowledge or authorization, abducted a resident, took the resident out to sea, placed a bag over their heads, put concrete shoes on that resident, and then dumped them overboard with no witnesses other than the "Seal Team" carrying out the order. No trial. No witnesses. Only abduction, seclusio…

How did you learn about this incident which had no witnesses?

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#560
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the full accusation is "Entity ABC used NSO tools for XYZ ". So the reaction was to cancel ABC's account while NSO investigates whether ABC actually did use the tools for XYZ, or whether ABC was only using them for other (approved) purposes.

Regardless, NSO rules over international law.

No, it means that NSO takes customer complaints seriously, especially a customer as important as the US. They operate under Israeli legal jurisdiction, and probably have an existing relationship with US firms, public and private, and I don't think the Israelis would hesitate to take whatever action the US wanted, because it benefits them to "play nice" and be cooperative. It kinda sucks for them in this case because chances are this is evidence of in-fighting between US agencies, and NSO tools are in the middle.

FWIW "international law" is its own thing and doesn't work like normal law; in truth every nation by default "rules over international law". When was the last time you saw an "international law" trial or saw a nation punished?

Post reply on HN