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U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#441

Post by dundarious »

refurb wrote: post #365
markus_zhang wrote: post #150

This is a typical "shadow government" symptom. You have forces working within the government that 1) have their own agendas; 2) have connection to international communities, usually military-intelligence ones; 3) have almost zero regulation; 4) even many high ranking government officials don't know about them because they are brotherhood-like closed circles. This reminds me of Operation Gladio or Propaganda Due but d…

“Shadow government” = “Deep state”?

They're both somewhat vague phrases that are heavily context-dependent and have somewhat different connotations, but yes.

There's nothing wrong with the phrase "deep state". If you're concerned about associations with Trump (which I think you should not be), you can use a former Obama official's favored term, "the blob". Both, and many other similar phrases, are common in the foreign policy literature.

I think the first time I heard the phrase "shadow government" was in connection to Iran-Contra, where it described Oliver North and the small group in charge or those operations, but it's a phrase with many uses. I can't remember when I first heard of the "deep state", but I'd be fairly certain it was before Trump or anyone connected to him started using it.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#442

Post by Eelongate »

napmo wrote: post #375
foolfoolz wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this angle seems really out dated. the us alliance with israel is not about religious reasons. israel is the one democratic state in a region that mostly has our enemies. israel is a military power. we have strategic interests in maintaining the middle east political bloc imagine if this headline read france instead. we would react similarly

The whole point of your comment is wrong. Israel may be considered a democracy, but only for the so-called "chosen people"; This so-called democracy which is based on racial purity and militarism is in fact a form of fascism, and not a democracy in any way. And the main reason for some of the countries in the middle east to become enemies of the US is the blind support of US for the Israel to occupy the land of Pales…

There is also the matter of "the one democratic state in a region" being BS, or incredibly disingenuous at best. Even if you don't count Lebanon as a democracy (presumably not counted because Israel and Hezbollah hate each other) there is the matter of America's role in toppling other democratic governments in the region, particularly Iran in 1953. Furthermore, America seems to have no trouble cooperating with other monarchies around the world, so the premise of America only being able to cooperate with democracies is nonsense. What's so heinous about Jordan being a constitutional monarchy? Nothing really, it certainly didn't stop America from defending Kuwait (also a constitutional monarchy) when Iraq invaded.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#443

Post by javajosh »

catlikesshrimp wrote: post #299
Eelongate wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public's elected representatives being easily blackmailable is obviously of great concern to the public, I don't know why you're downplaying this.

Don't believe representatives are elected because of their integrity and their willingness to serve. They represent groups of interest. And being blackmailable is, in my opinion, a handy leash to keep them in check, for those groups which propose the candidates The public is not concerned with corruption until they feel affected by it.

It sounds more like you're asserting that corruption has been redifined, because we expect elected officials to represent a group of interests... But this is quite circular.

It would be better for us to maintain our high expectations of our leaders, even if those expectations are not currently being met. It doesn't mean that they cannot be met. It feels so damned gamed that I cannot imagine what a genuine political candidate would look like, a member of the public deciding, yes, I will run for office, and then speaking to their friends and neighbors about it, and submitting the paperwork to make it official.

Can you imagine if that's what politics was? Wouldn't it be amazing? Sometimes I feel like there's too many smart people with way too much time on their hands, and they create these political storms as a way to generate money. I hope they all go into the gaming industry and make a tone of money without undermining a functional democracy. The problems we have don't always have money behind them. In fact, it's usually a trade-off we want someone with money to take, that they don't want to take. And the way we coerce an organization is through legislation. So it makes sense for orgs to take that control back and spend on PR campaigns and pundits to argue in their favor. Payola for sophists. But I digress...

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#444

Post by jacquesm »

smabie wrote: post #436
jacquesm wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty weird statement, if one of his colleagues would swipe cash that travelers put in the bins then they should fire their ass and move them to the 'not good people' column. Stealing isn't something that defines you as human.

I think pretty much everyone has stolen something before, right?

That says more about you than it does about humans in general.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#445

Post by jacquesm »

sgregnt wrote: post #426
jacquesm wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP may be simply wrong about some of the facts but you are crossing the HN guidelines in multiple ways at once.

Thank you, I'm sorry for the harsh response and you're right about my phrasing, I improve next time. But I can hardly see how the quoted part of the OP comment maybe explains by > simply wrong about some of the facts to me it seems that OP comment was just pushing for agenda using some hyperbole and hate.

> to me it seems that OP comment was just pushing for agenda using some hyperbole and hate.

The operative word in that sentence is seems, and you can't know that for sure so you shouldn't respond as though you do. HN has some pretty specific instructions about that.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#446

Post by webmaven »

OneLeggedCat wrote: post #424
OminousWeapons wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has dirty laundry they would prefer not be aired, and if they don't then their friends, family, or partners do. I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office.

> I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office. Well lucky you, we have the exact 100% polar opposite of that system currently. I think it would be fine to move toward it a little.

> Well lucky you, we have the exact 100% polar opposite of that system currently. I think it would be fine to move toward it a little.

I'm skeptical of the notion that outing public officials (when the blackmail material is personal in nature as posited by the GP) would move toward that goal.

I don't even think an exception should be made for material that would expose hypocrisy in policy-making (eg. 'pro-life' lawmakers that have had or facilitated an abortion).

Straight-up crimes though (bribery, corruption, theft, insider trading, etc.), sure.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#447

Post by ArtDev »

ruined wrote: post #257
throaway46546 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine all the dirt the NSA has on congress.

remember when the cia interfered with the congressional investigation of their torture program, by getting the FBI to investigate senators for viewing the documents that the CIA provided them, and spying on the senate investigation activities, and then nothing happened https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-f... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q82...

I do remember that one. I can't believe they got away with it with zero consequences.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#448

Post by N3Xxus_6 »

stuntkite wrote: post #321
fmajid wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSO guys are in it purely for the money. IIRC there was a deal on the cards for some investors to buy the company that fell apart because of the sanctions, so the NSO founders can no longer cash out. As for destabilizing governments, they are doing the opposite, they are helping authoritarian governments worldwide crack down on journalists and dissidents, or murder them in the case of Saudi Arabia and Jamal Khash…

The episode of Darknet Diaries on NSO was very informative. https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/100/ I knew about Israeli security consultancies putting out stringrays and phone cracking tools, but I did not know about NSO. He has a good interview with one of the lead devs.

correction the interview isn't a lead dev of NSO but from a third party who investigate malware attacks on reporters etc

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#449

Post by webmaven »

krapp wrote: post #312
OminousWeapons wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has dirty laundry they would prefer not be aired, and if they don't then their friends, family, or partners do. I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office.

>I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office. Don't worry, you live in a world where a man with a well documented decades-long laundry list of scandals and faux-pas can brag on tape about how he can get away with molesting young women because of how rich he is and still get elected President.…

> I'm actually wondering what you could effectively blackmail an American politician with, given how little Americans seem to care about the morality of their leaders.

Well, in general anything that would get them prosecuted for a felony should be an effective stick. Add in a carrot and now they're on the hook for bribery too.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#450

Post by javajosh »

ruined wrote: post #257
throaway46546 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine all the dirt the NSA has on congress.

remember when the cia interfered with the congressional investigation of their torture program, by getting the FBI to investigate senators for viewing the documents that the CIA provided them, and spying on the senate investigation activities, and then nothing happened https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-f... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q82...

Yes, I remember! But I just got up to 2011 on my todo list and am playing through Borderlands 2. I'll follow up on 2014 matters which will hopefully take less than 3 more years.
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