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Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

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Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#141

Please... please don't use titles like this and spoil it for everyone. Can we edit the title to say "Magnus Carlsen and Ian Nepomnitchi play the longest world chess championship game"?

I can understand "spoil" for films, book, games but this is just sport news.

Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#142

Utterly insane. Not only required a bunch of stamina but careful work to not trigger a draw.

I liked this bit.

> Known for always being quite fit, the Norwegian GM admitted this was a tiring affair: "Sure, but I think that's the way it is. As I said, it shouldn't be easy in a world championship match. You have to try for every chance no matter how small it is. Part of it was by design at some point that I thought I should make the game as long as possible so that we would both be as tired as possible when the critical moment came. That turned out to be a good strategy."

Turned the game into a sport. Which ended up paying off better than the counter-strategy of playing quick moves to apply extra time pressure. From the description it seemed like it could easily have gone either way, so clearly a win and yet by very narrow margins where replaying, if possible to go back in time, would likely yield different results.

Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#143
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is lichess so good? Just because it’s free?

It's because there's a very hard working person focused on making great software without relying on profitable privacy abuse. Go donate to them.

Sorry, I meant to ask what makes it so good.

Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#144
post #85

Imagine lasting 136 moves against Carlsen... This is the guy who gives people eight free moves and still destroys them two minutes later.

Nepo has previously worked as part of Magnus's team (one of his "seconds"), and they have been friends who compete against each other since childhood.

It is likely that this is the most evenly matched world championship of the 21st century, as both players are extremely well-prepared to face each other at the highest level.

Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#145
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans aren't computers. A machine can throw a fastball at speeds well above what humans can do. That doesn't mean we retire pitchers completely and end the game of baseball. A car can cover 100m in a fraction of the time humans can, doesn't mean we end track and field. Chess is a game between humans and that's what makes it exciting. And with computers we have a whole additional layer added where we can see what an…

We probably have the technology to have races using self driving cars without drivers (perhaps with more accidents). It may be interesting to watch, but it would be a different sport

We don't. Self-driving race cars are hilariously bad.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9fv2HR6Sc48

Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#146

Bit of a spoiler :( I prefer to watch analysis of games from YouTubers like Agadmator or Jerry from Chessnetwork and discover who the winner was by watching the game. I wonder if these long games are not particularly helpful. Most chess final games end in draws as players are reluctant to create an imbalance and instead play it safe. There tends to be more exciting games played in games with a shorter time limit. I'm…

"It was the first decisive game in the classical rounds of a world championship in over five years." I wonder if there’s some way other than time constraints to encourage higher variance moves.

Yes, they can change the opening position. This is done in computer vs. computer tournaments because otherwise it'd be all draws.

Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#147
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of an exaggeration to say "almost all" games at the highest level end in draws. I wouldn't have said that from my personal experience following top-level chess, and the data indeed indicates it's under 75% [0]—which is a large proportion, but not "almost all". [0]: https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-draw-rule-is-classica...

At the very highest level, the draw percentage is much higher. In the last World Chess Championship in 2018, all twelve classical games went to draws! It's complete garbage from a spectator point of view.

Sure, but that's mainly because the WCC is such a high-stakes match. Their overall record is not so draw-dominated. According to [0],

  Classical games: Ian Nepomniachtchi beat Magnus Carlsen 4 to 2, with 14 draws.
which gives a draw rate of 80%.

[0]: https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?page=1&player=carls....

Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#148
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of an exaggeration to say "almost all" games at the highest level end in draws. I wouldn't have said that from my personal experience following top-level chess, and the data indeed indicates it's under 75% [0]—which is a large proportion, but not "almost all". [0]: https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-draw-rule-is-classica...

At the very highest level, the draw percentage is much higher. In the last World Chess Championship in 2018, all twelve classical games went to draws! It's complete garbage from a spectator point of view.

It's not the level, but the WCC format, which makes current players not want to take risks at all. Today's game is a great example of why they are conservative: Taking any risks with black, like Nepo did when he avoided an early queen trade, is just too dangerous. A single loss means your opponent can aim for a draw in every single further game. If a super GM wants a draw out of the game from the very opening, choosing the most boring variations they can think of, someone is going to have to take crazy risks to stop it. Remember Kramnik's approach with the Berlin, turning the Ruy Lopez opening, known for its sharpness for centuries, into a recipe for draws.

Look instead at the next highest level tournament, the WCC candidates. There's money on the line, but really, the chance for the title is so much more important, winning the tournament is all that matters, and you aren't getting there with just draws, or even just a couple of wins. The very top players in the world, other than the current WCC are the only ones that participate, and yet the draw rate is lower than that average 75% too: In the last tournament, Nepo lost 1 and won 5 out of 14 games. Same with Caruana in the 2018 candidates.

That said, we'd see fewer draws too with shorter time controls, but then the top players also change. In 2018, if the championship was an infinite classic series until someone has 3 wins, Caruana was probably the favorite, given how he had Carlsen against the ropes over and over again, just a bit shy of victory. But in Rapid or Blitz, He's nowhere near as good.

Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lots of games at this level result in draws, this was a win.

I wonder if this is a limitation on how humans conceptualize Chess. Do games played with computers either vs human or another computer frequently end in draws? If not, maybe there is some insight to be gained to raise high level play even more.

Yes, there is a limitation. People have to learn high-level ideas and develop their intuition. Computers can have millions of training games (to teach the NN and to do regression tests), terabytes of tablebase positions and an ability to calculate thousands of lines in real-time.

Re: Magnus Carlsen wins longest world chess championship game of all time

#150
post #141

Please... please don't use titles like this and spoil it for everyone. Can we edit the title to say "Magnus Carlsen and Ian Nepomnitchi play the longest world chess championship game"?

I can understand "spoil" for films, book, games but this is just sport news.

Chess is different from other sports in that watching it "live" isn't really the best way to experience it. Half the time you'd be looking at a chess board with no one around it, and you don't get to spend time thinking where you want to think, you have to spend it where the players decided to. Lots of people are going to instead watch the game later, at their own pace, watching someone analysis of the game, or doing their own. It's not entirely unreasonable to not want that spoiled.
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