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HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

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Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#61

Post by w33ble »

heydenberk wrote: post #12

HP should do what they should've done a while ago: promise to make WebOS well-supported and well-stocked with apps, and bring the TouchPad into production at $200 or $250 to still undercut the competition but not bleed cash so profusely. I'd buy into it as a user and a developer.

Given that the tablets are still fetching that price on eBay right now, over a week after the firesale started, I think that's exactly the price they need to hit. The tablet simply had no demand at $500+, but at $250, people are willing to buy in.

$250 for what is essentially a handy, high-tech toy is about right. Plus, HP wouldn't be senselessly bleeding so much cash. Ebay sales show up people are clearly willing to drop $200-250 on the things, there's really no reason they should have or should keep selling them at $100-150.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#62

Post by patrickk »

mikeknoop wrote: post #3

Did HP accidentally just find the best way to break into the tablet market? Sell hardware at a loss and make it up on software. Console makers have been doing it for some time now.

It appears Apple doesn't make money from apps, apparently they roughly break even from the app store with a 30% cut of apps:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2649475

"...Peter Oppenheimer added, “We run the App Store just a little over breakeven,” implicitly making the case that the App Store was not a big profit generator for the company."

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_app_store_runs_...

If Apple can't make money from apps, do you think HP can do better? How viable would it be to sell hardware at a major discount and hope to recoup it from apps (as others here have noted)?

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#63

Post by mrtron »

w33ble wrote: post #54
mikeknoop wrote: post #3

Did HP accidentally just find the best way to break into the tablet market? Sell hardware at a loss and make it up on software. Console makers have been doing it for some time now.

Even without selling apps, building a huge customer base and finally attracting developers to write apps for the platform is hugely beneficial. If they have a large ecosystem with millions of users and thousands of apps, it'll be much easier for them to license the OS to other OEMs. Either may actually be their plan, but I suspect it was a plan made after the fact; otherwise they wouldn't have killed the Pre3 before…

Why would OEMs license a dead OS over android?

It would have to be a better ecosystem than android which I don't see happening after hp dropped it themselves.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#64

Post by spiralganglion »

martingordon wrote: post #33
ansy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this is just HP clearing out the supply chain of already purchased parts and units still at the factory. HP's cost is probably just a few dollars per unit to ship and possibly assemble them. I find it hard to believe anyone approved an entirely new order of parts at $300 BOM just to sell them for $99.

You may be right, but if it's not an ops guy getting fired, then it should be a PR guy. I mean, look at this: "Before I share, let me first say thank you for enthusiasm for this product. Since we announced the price drop, the number of inquiries about the product and the speed at which it disappeared from inventory has been stunning. I think it’s safe to say we were pleasantly surprised by the response. Despite annou…

I don't understand all the down-votes. This seems like a valid and well-meant contribution to the discussion, being voted down because it presents something slightly contrarian. Why is martingordon's suggestion any more unworthy of HN than the earlier suggestion that the person responsible for this new run be fired? They're both looking at this news inquisitively, trying to understand the forces behind the public actions of HP following their recent mutation.

If you're voting it down, just be sure you're not doing so out of disagreement with the points raised.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#65

Post by lionhearted »

Tangential: I think HP's stock might be selling for less than the company's liquidation value at this point, depending on what you think of their patents. That's ignoring the fact that they also have some profitable high margin businesses.

Sure, they're doing some boneheaded stuff lately, but I couldn't resist buying some. Buying $1 for 88 cents is usually a good move. I sold some TIPS bonds to buy shares.

Disclaimer: Obviously I just bought some of the stock. I'm not sure if they're selling for below their liquidation price. Check the financials yourself and do your own research. Etc, etc.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#68

Post by ddw »

w33ble wrote: post #57
raganwald wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I’ll pretend to be a VC. So you make a WebOS game/app. What kind of users do you expect to have? A whole bunch of cheapos who bought the tablet because it was $99. And how much do you think those people will pay for your app? Next question. Word of mouth. If those people like your app, they’ll tell friends. Will those friends have WebOS tablets? Let’s talk about the lifetime value of your code base. How long can…

You're right, but I don't think OP is alone in thinking they way he does. Creating an app in pure HTML/CSS/JS and having it actaully run quickly is an interesting idea, and one that makes WebOS unique. The problem before was that there was almost nobody using the OS, but that's changed a bit now. Is it worth doing? Time will tell, but if you can bang out something quickly and not spend a lot of time/money getting it…

Yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking. I'm one of the cheapos that have the TP now and would definitely pay for apps if there was something worth paying for.

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#69

Post by w33ble »

mrtron wrote: post #63
w33ble wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without selling apps, building a huge customer base and finally attracting developers to write apps for the platform is hugely beneficial. If they have a large ecosystem with millions of users and thousands of apps, it'll be much easier for them to license the OS to other OEMs. Either may actually be their plan, but I suspect it was a plan made after the fact; otherwise they wouldn't have killed the Pre3 before…

Why would OEMs license a dead OS over android? It would have to be a better ecosystem than android which I don't see happening after hp dropped it themselves.

But HP hasn't dropped the OS, just the hardware. They still are invested in the software, they just don't want to make the hardware. At least that's what VP of Developer Relations has said.

http://developer.palm.com/blog/2011/08/the-work-of-webos-con...

Re: HP to produce one more batch of Touchpads

#70

Post by w33ble »

jackson71 wrote: post #59
raganwald wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I’ll pretend to be a VC. So you make a WebOS game/app. What kind of users do you expect to have? A whole bunch of cheapos who bought the tablet because it was $99. And how much do you think those people will pay for your app? Next question. Word of mouth. If those people like your app, they’ll tell friends. Will those friends have WebOS tablets? Let’s talk about the lifetime value of your code base. How long can…

Anecdotally, webOS devs, given the low threshold of competition and influx of new Touchpad owners, are doing pretty fantastic sales right now. Good for a quick return at least. Since HP's also being charitable and giving away 6-packs of apps for free (and paying the dev for each one at full regular 70% share), a couple of those devs picked found themselves 5-figures richer overnight. No idea how long they intend to k…

I think that's the key; new hardware. If HP relies on the TouchPad for any more than 6 months, a year tops, they'll completely lose out on all their efforts. They need someone else to make better and still cheap hardware to keep people interested and buying. There are simply too many Android devices coming out, each one better than the last (forcing a price reduction of the last), to ride their current wave for any longer than that.

It's still very curious why they called an end to the hardware production BEFORE they had someone lined up to make new devices though.

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