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U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#61

Post by montblanc »

walrus01 wrote: post #49
maltalex wrote: post #46

I don't understand the focus on NSO in these stories. If U.S State Department personnel in Uganda were shot from an M-16, would the headline mention "an American arms manufacturer"? No, because it's ridiculous. For better or worse, NSO's product is a weapon. How is it any different from an M-16? Where is the outrage towards the people who used this weapon against the State Department?

It's my understanding that NSO runs centralized command and control servers that their "clients" are granted access to, for both the on-device payload installation and also data exfiltration. They do not give the software to their clients to go use somewhere in the world fully independently (self hosted payload dropper, C&C, etc) They're a direct participant in the network traffic. Unlike a dumb purely offline piece…

So selling an F-15 to the Saudis (like the U.S is doing in droves) is more morally justifable because what exactly..? After the plane is sold the Saudis are independent with it? (they aren't really btw. I'm sure there's maintenance and buying parts etc).

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#62

Post by gowld »

montblanc wrote: post #60
maltalex wrote: post #46

I don't understand the focus on NSO in these stories. If U.S State Department personnel in Uganda were shot from an M-16, would the headline mention "an American arms manufacturer"? No, because it's ridiculous. For better or worse, NSO's product is a weapon. How is it any different from an M-16? Where is the outrage towards the people who used this weapon against the State Department?

[flagged]

Is there another popular spyware company being used by rogue states to perform terrorist attacks?

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#63

Post by flyinglizard »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #52

The Israel government gets a pass for anything they do. Whether it is lying about nukes or what they've done to Palestine. NSO is a feather in their cap.

Why are you conflating Israel (a state) and NSO (a fully private company, owned by American private equity at some point)?

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#64

Post by JumpCrisscross »

maltalex wrote: post #46

I don't understand the focus on NSO in these stories. If U.S State Department personnel in Uganda were shot from an M-16, would the headline mention "an American arms manufacturer"? No, because it's ridiculous. For better or worse, NSO's product is a weapon. How is it any different from an M-16? Where is the outrage towards the people who used this weapon against the State Department?

> don't understand the focus on NSO in these stories. If U.S State Department personnel in Uganda were shot from an M-16, would the headline mention "an American arms manufacturer"? No, because it's ridiculous.

No, because it isn't novel, it's not wide reaching, it's not at arm's length and it cannot be stopped.

Stuxnet, a novel American-Israeli cyber weapon, purpose built to hit Iran, was absolutely billed as such. And it was received differently, by Iran, than would be e.g. an American-made gun fired by Iraqis at Iranian surrogates.

NSO is making and selling cyberweapons. They're doing it now. These weapons are hitting the U.S. government and its allies to an unknown extent. And they can be turned off, right now, if Jerusalem orders it.

U.S. persons being shot in Uganda by Kalashnikovs are none of these things. It's not novel. Nobody wonders if the Ugandans are going to show up, guns blazing, in Arlington. And Moscow can't remotely disable the guns.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#65

Post by loeg »

montblanc wrote: post #60
maltalex wrote: post #46

I don't understand the focus on NSO in these stories. If U.S State Department personnel in Uganda were shot from an M-16, would the headline mention "an American arms manufacturer"? No, because it's ridiculous. For better or worse, NSO's product is a weapon. How is it any different from an M-16? Where is the outrage towards the people who used this weapon against the State Department?

[flagged]

The US provides substantial financial, military, and political aid to Israel, that it does not provide to Germany.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#66

Post by [deleted] »

flyinglizard wrote: post #63
SavantIdiot wrote: post #52

The Israel government gets a pass for anything they do. Whether it is lying about nukes or what they've done to Palestine. NSO is a feather in their cap.

Why are you conflating Israel (a state) and NSO (a fully private company, owned by American private equity at some point)?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#67

Post by ignoramous »

flyinglizard wrote: post #63
SavantIdiot wrote: post #52

The Israel government gets a pass for anything they do. Whether it is lying about nukes or what they've done to Palestine. NSO is a feather in their cap.

Why are you conflating Israel (a state) and NSO (a fully private company, owned by American private equity at some point)?

The Israeli Ministry of Defense licenses the export of Pegasus to foreign governments, but not to private entities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSO_Group#Pegasus

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#68

Post by montblanc »

gowld wrote: post #62
montblanc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is there another popular spyware company being used by rogue states to perform terrorist attacks?

What is your definition of rogue states? The U.S sells weapons to the Saudis in hundreds of billions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States%E2%80%93Sau....

So I should believe the U.S thinks it's OK to sell F-15 planes but not OK to sell software? I'm gonna assume yes, there are probably other players in cyber warfare who sell to these countries, probably also the U.S.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#69

Post by JumpCrisscross »

montblanc wrote: post #68
gowld wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there another popular spyware company being used by rogue states to perform terrorist attacks?

What is your definition of rogue states? The U.S sells weapons to the Saudis in hundreds of billions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States%E2%80%93Sau... . So I should believe the U.S thinks it's OK to sell F-15 planes but not OK to sell software? I'm gonna assume yes, there are probably other players in cyber warfare who sell to these countries, probably also the U.S.

> the U.S thinks it's OK to sell F-15 planes but not OK to sell software?

The U.S. thinks it's okay to sell F-15s that don't attack Americans and not okay to sell software that attacks Americans. As a, granted, American, I'm not seeing the incoherence.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#70

Post by walrus01 »

montblanc wrote: post #61
walrus01 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my understanding that NSO runs centralized command and control servers that their "clients" are granted access to, for both the on-device payload installation and also data exfiltration. They do not give the software to their clients to go use somewhere in the world fully independently (self hosted payload dropper, C&C, etc) They're a direct participant in the network traffic. Unlike a dumb purely offline piece…

So selling an F-15 to the Saudis (like the U.S is doing in droves) is more morally justifable because what exactly..? After the plane is sold the Saudis are independent with it? (they aren't really btw. I'm sure there's maintenance and buying parts etc).

I am also not in favor of selling advanced weaponry to the saudis or pretty much any non-democratic regime. The US has a very poor historical track record of supporting strongmen that do brutal things. Pinochet. Suharto. MBS. I could write a very long list.
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