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Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

ucdavis.edu

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Re: Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

#51

Post by Frost1x »

azemetre wrote: post #31
green-eclipse wrote: post #2

This is interesting, but not exactly news. Has been known for decades.

I do think it's news because some breeds suffer terribly at the end of their life, like golden retrieves typically getting cancer at 60% rates. [1] Would you get a golden retriever if you knew that at 7 years-old it's very likely to get a brain tumor? The same can be said for many breeds that suffer from breathing problems (pugs) or spinal issues (german shepherds) because someone decided that a german shepard should…

At some period of human history, breeding for some traits probably made sense, functionally. Dogs that could hunt well or track other animals for you all made sense in a survival situation.

The mess we got into was when we started this whole selective genetic manipulation based on visual appearances and at the cost of their health. As pets, to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense to do all this nonsense selective breeding and inbreeding that perpetuates clear genetic issues that would resolve with a bit natural diversity. I never want to have a 'pure' bred dog both in principle against the idea and because more diversity means my pet has a better chance of moving away from bad generic traits or moving their pups into that direction (and a potentially longer, healthier life).

My sibling owned a pug at one point when I was young and she was incredibly cute and sweet but at a cost to her health. Her facial wrinkle folds were prone to bacterial infection and had to be cleaned regularly, she suffered a lot of food allergies, had clear breathing problems, but fortunately didn't suffer from any sort of eye problems pugs are prone to. She ultimately died of cancer.

I'll take rescue pets which are most often not selectively bred any day over encouraging the breeding nonsense. All of my rescue pets have lived long and healthy lives into old age with almost no issues, just by avoiding inbreeding for at least one level of lineage.

Re: Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

#52

Post by a-saleh »

thih9 wrote: post #37
bArray wrote: post #25

This is well known. Sometimes people breed the grandfather with the bitch or even the father. I think 'Pedigree certificates' has a lot to answer for in this regard. It doesn't encourage any kind of genetic diversity and people are actively discouraged and punished for trying to introduce new blood into lines. Another group to blame are 'puppy farms', people who breed merely to make money and take no responsibility f…

> not so smart that it's getting bored or trying to figure out how to escape. This could be understood as if the most intelligent dogs were always bored or trying to escape. To clarify: intelligent dogs do need more stimulation, this is very true. But as long as they get it, they're happy.

I discussed this with my partner that takes her hobby of dog-training very seriously (like, we live with three dogs, and she sometimes does payed woroshops, e.t.c) that Border Colies are often considered to be the most intelligent dogs, but that might be mostly a side-product of breeding them to be eager to please.

In theory many other breeds could be more intelligent, but border collie is the one most likely to be excited to learn how to be good at the tests we give the dogs.

Re: Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

#53

Post by mbreese »

zdw wrote: post #36
todd8 wrote: post #7

From the featured article: > The average inbreeding based on genetic analysis across 227 breeds was close to 25%, or the equivalent of sharing the same genetic material with a full sibling Full siblings would actual share approximately 50%.

It's been a while since I took biology, but doesn't this depend on the genders of the siblings? Two male brothers have XY, and the Y would have to be shared with the father, and same with two sisters (X from father), but a brother and sister would get a minimum of 50% different as the X and Y from the father would be different?

In humans, y is so small as to be insignificant in these terms. ChrX is much larger. Also, the combination of the remaining chr1-22 are much larger than chrX by itself, so these numbers don’t factor in as much as you’d think.

Rough scale example:

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    YY

Re: Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

#54

Post by sktrdie »

dfsegoat wrote: post #49
sktrdie wrote: post #33

What I find interesting is that dogs are way better adapt at living a “city life” or an “apartment life” than we ever will be (unless we start breeding for those traits ourselves). People think “ah dogs are animals and should live in nature and not in closed doors of a city apartment”. Nope, from a genetic point of view some dogs are way more naturally fit to live indoors (look at Maltese for instance who’s bread to…

> What I find interesting is that dogs are way better adapt at living a “city life” or an “apartment life” This is certainly not the case with some of the herding / working dog breeds (GSD, Malinois etc) - it is borderline cruel keeping them in an apartment in some cases, and dangerous in others. I lived with a presa canario for a year in an apartment (roommates dog) - it was not a good situation for the dog or anyon…

Certainly makes sense we also breed in the opposite direction. Where they are better fit to be outdoors. Still I would argue dogs have a certain adaptation to living indoors that was bread into them artificially rather than naturally. Herd dogs still relied on the food/shelter from the owner.

Re: Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

#55

Post by bsder »

azemetre wrote: post #31
green-eclipse wrote: post #2

This is interesting, but not exactly news. Has been known for decades.

I do think it's news because some breeds suffer terribly at the end of their life, like golden retrieves typically getting cancer at 60% rates. [1] Would you get a golden retriever if you knew that at 7 years-old it's very likely to get a brain tumor? The same can be said for many breeds that suffer from breathing problems (pugs) or spinal issues (german shepherds) because someone decided that a german shepard should…

> Would you get a golden retriever if you knew that at 7 years-old it's very likely to get a brain tumor?

Dogs have a lifespan. It's shorter than ours. It's sad, but it simply is.

Scottish terriers seem to get cancers around 10-12 years. My dog died at 11 of liver cancer. A brother died of a stomach cancer similarly. The mother died of a brain cancer at about the same age.

Was the joy and happiness brought by those dogs not worth it simply because their lifespan wasn't longer?

Re: Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

#56

Post by retrac »

thih9 wrote: post #37
bArray wrote: post #25

This is well known. Sometimes people breed the grandfather with the bitch or even the father. I think 'Pedigree certificates' has a lot to answer for in this regard. It doesn't encourage any kind of genetic diversity and people are actively discouraged and punished for trying to introduce new blood into lines. Another group to blame are 'puppy farms', people who breed merely to make money and take no responsibility f…

> not so smart that it's getting bored or trying to figure out how to escape. This could be understood as if the most intelligent dogs were always bored or trying to escape. To clarify: intelligent dogs do need more stimulation, this is very true. But as long as they get it, they're happy.

It's my experience that a dog's tendency to wander or want to escape has only a little to do with its intelligence. (Their ability to effect an escape is a different matter.) I think it's partly just a personality trait. I've met stupid, misanthropic chihuahuas that won't wander and intelligent, deeply loyal huskies that chase after everything they can see.

Re: Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

#57

Post by notyourwork »

dfsegoat wrote: post #49
sktrdie wrote: post #33

What I find interesting is that dogs are way better adapt at living a “city life” or an “apartment life” than we ever will be (unless we start breeding for those traits ourselves). People think “ah dogs are animals and should live in nature and not in closed doors of a city apartment”. Nope, from a genetic point of view some dogs are way more naturally fit to live indoors (look at Maltese for instance who’s bread to…

> What I find interesting is that dogs are way better adapt at living a “city life” or an “apartment life” This is certainly not the case with some of the herding / working dog breeds (GSD, Malinois etc) - it is borderline cruel keeping them in an apartment in some cases, and dangerous in others. I lived with a presa canario for a year in an apartment (roommates dog) - it was not a good situation for the dog or anyon…

> This is certainly not the case with some of the herding / working dog breeds (GSD, Malinois etc) - it is borderline cruel keeping them in an apartment in some cases, and dangerous in others.

100%, I live in a city high rise. I see too many anxious dogs in that category that are "toys" to the owner and do not get sufficient exercise and mental stimulation. I love the beligan malinois breed but realize I have a lifestyle today that prevents me from owning one. Its similar to fish and aquarium sizes in many ways.

Re: Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

#59

Post by tata71 »

ethbr0 wrote: post #38

Side note: you can get a pretty robust genetic panels (health + breed) for dogs for about $150 now. We did it recently on two of our pups (both mutts), and it was neat seeing the various possible lineages. Our tiny terrier / beagle mix came back with >10% Chow & Siberian Husky. Never would have guessed that! https://embarkvet.com/

Time to do this would be before you acquired the dog, no?

Re: Study: Most Dog Breeds Highly Inbred

#60

Post by mgarfias »

krona wrote: post #11

The UK kennel club allows you to calculate the inbreeding coefficient for either a registered (pedigree) dog or for future puppies of two potential mates: https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/search/inbreeding-co-effici... This kind of information is used by responsible breeders and buyers, thus my dachshund has 0% inbreeding going back 5 generations.

the problem with these calculations is that they're based on pedigree, not genetics. If you're only studying 3-5 generations of pedigree, the COI might look REALLY good, but the animal can still be a genetic mess because those 3-5 generations all had a common (or multiple common) ancestors in generations 6-7.
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