What will enter the public domain in 2022 • Hacker News Board

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#211

Post by nicoburns » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

hnbad wrote: post #193

hnbad wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd abolish intellectual property as a category. Yeah, there's no chance this will happen short of a communist revolution or something, but you didn't ask specify whether the fix would be practical. Yes, this would abandon patents and strengthen trade secrets, but with no IP laws trade secrets would eventually either be leaked (because you can't keep secrets indefinitely) or reverse engineered. Workers already have t…

Or for a less radical approach: Limit copyright for creative works to the author's lifetime. Dad wrote the next Lord of the Rings on his deathbed? Too bad, you better hope he sorted out a good publishing deal that'll survive him. Abolish copyright for software. Sorry, your ecommerce website isn't Hamlet. Cap patents to a fixed number of years, say 10, and ban software patents. Also require that a patent filing actual…

> you better hope he sorted out a good publishing deal that'll survive him

Presumably this wouldn't help if the copyright didn't survive him, as anybody else would also be able to publish the work.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#212

Post by necovek » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

bruce511 wrote: post #205

necovek wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fees are mostly to disincentivise keeping works from public domain (which copyright creators agreed was for the public good) which are not really benefiting the creator in any substantial way. Regarding governments, just like we establish residency for income tax purposes, you could establish residency for copyrighted-work creation. If it's multiple countries you've been in while "creating", the one you spent most ti…

>> Fees are mostly to disincentivise keeping works from public domain Your cure is worse than the disease. If I understand this right, works need to register and pay a fee to be copyrighted. So if I take a picture of my smiling family, post it on FaceBook without registering it (and paying a fee) it's automatically public domain? So it can be used in a brochure by any political party, company, gun advert, whatever, w…

> Your cure is worse than the disease.

It wasn't my proposal. My original response to the GP comment was that I'd avoid registration and only introduce registration/renewal fees after a certain short (compared to existing duration) period, like 10 or 15 years.

> ..my smiling family...

On top of me agreeing that requiring registration when publishing sucks, hopefully privacy laws stop your family photo from ever being misused.

On the topic of tax havens, you are right: my bad for misrepresenting stuff.

I was just trying to point out that you receiving your income somewhere where your government can't see it (either in cash or in a foreign bank account: plenty of 'poor' people evade tax in this way, even service workers in the US) does not change your tax residency. IOW, residency rules are well defined, and they could apply equally to copyright-residency.

But since copyright registration should be, IMO, voluntary and only after an initial grace period where copyright protection is automatically assumed, residency matters only in avoiding registration/renewal "migration".

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#213

Post by dahfizz » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

khafra wrote: post #204

chrismorgan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say go simple on the copyright extension formula. If you treat it as a tax (scaling by revenue or similar), it gets messy, encourages dishonesty, and pretty much forces a new subindustry to spring up. But if you keep it simple, you can achieve much the same result without needing more staff in the tax or copyright offices, or inspiring the existence of copyright lawyers or accountants. Ten years of free protection,…

> If you treat it as a tax (scaling by revenue or similar), it gets messy, encourages dishonesty, and pretty much forces a new subindustry to spring up. Not if you treat it as a Harberger* tax. If you do that, the small-time writer gets to keep his characters for a pittance, but Disney pays royally for all their princesses. * https://academic.oup.com/jla/article/9/1/51/3572441

I think the only time a Harberger tax makes sense is for illiquid investments, such as investment real estate. Everywhere else, the forced buying and selling creates more problems than it solves.

In this example of Disney's IP - it takes a lot of time and money to make a movie. A competitor to Disney could wait until they announce a new movie and then forcibly buy up enough rights to make the movie illegal to release. It encourages and creates a framework for sabotage among competitors.

The steady state is that one mega corp emerges victorious. Disney sets up a script that forcibly purchases any "super hero" adjacent IP. No small time creators would ever be allowed to exist, when large corporations are allowed to smother them so easily.

I also strongly disagree that this is the simpler option. Figuring out how to price your property and how often to re-asses would definitely bring about OP's concern of "gets messy, encourages dishonesty, and pretty much forces a new subindustry to spring up."

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#214

Post by criddell » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

bruce511 wrote: post #146

chrismcb wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limited time because it is in the Constitution. But also it allowed others to build on your creation. Sherlock Holmes is a wonderful example. Most of Holmes is in public domain. And recently the has been a rich at of culture created. Movies, television series, additional books. Personally I think the main thing that is broken is the the expiration date. The Constitution says "finite" and while there is a finite limit…

I agree, the time limit seems arbitrary. And sure there are a handful of works that are famous enough to allow for the creation of new, obviously derivative works. Not that we are exactly short of original movie and TV content - but now we can have a few more derivative sherlock homes, so yay... So if finite means a time limit, then isn't any limit arbitrary? Should an author live to see their work exploited in their…

The first release of GNU Hurd was in 1990. So Oracle could use that release to build from in 2030. Do you think Stallman's copyright on the 1990 release of GNU Hurd is still giving him the fuel he needs to keep creating?

From https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explai...:

> The primary purpose of copyright is to induce and reward authors, through the provision of property rights, to create new works and to make those works available to the public to enjoy.

I think knowing copyright ends in 40 years would do more to incentivize new work than the current set of rules. If a copyright is held by a corporation, the duration should probably be half of that. Having copyright last beyond a creator's life makes no sense to me at all because nothing new is created by that person.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#215

Post by suilied » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

I would fix it by removing it. I haven't once seen copyright being used to protect "the little man" (not saying it never happens, but I'm a bit sinical when it comes to big corps) Why not abolish the idea of copyright and let stories / characters / etc. take their course. At first this will probably cause chaos as people scramble to churn out a metric ton of material that was once locked under copyright but hopefully in the long run this will lead to an increase in overall quality of material as people start to be more critical of the things they consume.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#216

Post by khafra » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #213

khafra wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you treat it as a tax (scaling by revenue or similar), it gets messy, encourages dishonesty, and pretty much forces a new subindustry to spring up. Not if you treat it as a Harberger* tax. If you do that, the small-time writer gets to keep his characters for a pittance, but Disney pays royally for all their princesses. * https://academic.oup.com/jla/article/9/1/51/3572441

I think the only time a Harberger tax makes sense is for illiquid investments, such as investment real estate. Everywhere else, the forced buying and selling creates more problems than it solves. In this example of Disney's IP - it takes a lot of time and money to make a movie. A competitor to Disney could wait until they announce a new movie and then forcibly buy up enough rights to make the movie illegal to release…

Pure Harberger taxes aren't a perfect fit for copyright--7 initial years free* is what one fan of the original paper proposed--but I can't see how, compared to existing copyright law, they encourage dishonesty, get messy, or require new industry (a sufficiently large IP company might shift some spending from lawyers to valuation and risk assessment).

> A competitor to Disney could wait until they announce a new movie and then forcibly buy up enough rights to make the movie illegal to release.

In a de novo work like Toy Story, or a fully licensed work like Wreck-It Ralph, Disney owns the rights and knows their value when they announce the upcoming film. The problem only occurs in cases like Lion King, where an existing folk story gets Disneyfied, with no compensation, and often no credit, to the cultural originator of the story.

I'm ok with Disney needing to pay extra money while their competitors pay extra taxes, in cases like this.

* https://ristret.com/s/ftmbkg/harberger_taxation_has_elegant

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#217

Post by BeFlatXIII » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

LiquidPolymer wrote: post #147

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

As someone who makes decent income via royalties from my copyrighted work, I object to this proposal. Purely from a record keeping perspective, the additional work required for my small business would add a considerable burden. And my accountant would probably have to do the math - thus costing me even more in fees. Large corporations like Disney and MCI are not the only entities who use copyright to protect property…

Copyright needs fixing so that heirs cannot grift off the hard work of those who actually had creative ideas.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#218

Post by owlbynight » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

hyfgfh wrote: post #127

owlbynight wrote: post #47

This is easily the worst UX of the year for me. Designed by an absolute alien. Do they really think I'm going to come to this site every day to see a GIS thumbnail instead of just doing a google search to find the entire, unopinionated list?

relax it`s just an advent calendar

I don't mind a real advent calendar, but there's something wholly offensive to my soul about this designer spending so much time on code that only exists to needlessly strip away my freedom to overindulge... on information... that I can just Google.

It's passive aggressive. User enragement.

My wife does this idiosyncratic thing where she lays claim to half of a bag of snacks that has no intent to ever consume. And I know it's nonsense, but I'm forced to bend to her will and watch the second law of thermodynamics unfold at an excruciating rate. Walk through the kitchen, past the pantry, as entropy claims Schrodinger's half pack of Fig Newtons yet again.

This is the website equivalent of that.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#219

Post by dllthomas » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:15 PM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #197

cma wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a 70 year old's same work product be worth much less than a 20 year old's? It should just be a period of time, with possibly exponentially increasing renewal fees so funds go into the common good the more the public domain is deprived.

Because you can't take your work with you when you die, so it can't matter what happens to it and should be considered common good afterwards. I'd say it's actually worth more, to humanity as a whole.

> so it can't matter what happens to it

Even ignoring inheritance this is wrong, because you can sell it to someone who might outlive you, and spend the proceeds while you're still alive. The amount you can sell it for is going to be much less if there is substantial risk that the property goes away soon after the sale.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#220

Post by antifa » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

aosaigh wrote: post #176

I find it hilarious that users are complaining about the UX. It's an advent calendar! It says so in the subtitle "A Festive Countdown". Did these same users complain to their parents if/when they got an advent calendar for Christmas? "Mother, this advent calendar has awful usability. Why can't I access all of the chocolate immediately?"

"Advent Calendar" does not exist in my culture, I just see a bunch of thumbnails with an unlabeled, seemingly random, number, but only a tiny number of them can be clicked to read more.