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Why must you laugh at my back end?

blog.pud.com

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Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#91

Post by abscondment »

qaexl wrote: post #62

(1) I have respect for people who can put a project together and get revenue flowing through it. (2) This technology stack sucks. (3) That your technology stack sucks does not mean you suck. (4) Maslow's Four Stages of Competence starts with Unconscious Incompetence. You don't even know you are unskilled. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence ) (5) This isn't a popularity contest. ( http://www.ribb…

1-3 remind me of a great "I Can Has Cheezburger?" anecdote about being a successful CTO: http://www.scottporad.com/2010/11/12/what-it-really-means-to...

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#92

Post by mootothemax »

nhashem wrote: post #9

This is great. Seriously. I cut my teeth in the early 2000s writing the type of PHP code that would make your eyes bleed. Global variables everywhere. HTML/PHP/MySQL in the same file. Career-wise I ended up going down a backend/database developer path, so if I do anything with consumer-facing web applications, it's on my free time. I'm working on such an app now, and right now the fastest way I can get anything done…

I'd really, really, really advise you at least check out a framework :) Spend 10 minutes reading the documentation behind CodeIgniter (http://codeigniter.com/) and you'll see that you can have more time to spend developing, e.g., features, as the framework has taken care of the routine and mundane stuff.

As a note, I would recommend Kohana (http://kohanaframework.org/) over CodeIgniter, but if you're pushed for time, you don't want to deal with a sparsely-documented framework ;)

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#94

Post by Hisoka »

nhashem wrote: post #9

This is great. Seriously. I cut my teeth in the early 2000s writing the type of PHP code that would make your eyes bleed. Global variables everywhere. HTML/PHP/MySQL in the same file. Career-wise I ended up going down a backend/database developer path, so if I do anything with consumer-facing web applications, it's on my free time. I'm working on such an app now, and right now the fastest way I can get anything done…

That's not a bad strategy. I also believe in "Just get it out and done ASAP and brush it up like heck afterwards". Worry about injection attacks, efficiency issues, scaling after you gain some traction. You can always rewrite later when it becomes an issue.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#95

Post by 0x12 »

nhashem wrote: post #9

This is great. Seriously. I cut my teeth in the early 2000s writing the type of PHP code that would make your eyes bleed. Global variables everywhere. HTML/PHP/MySQL in the same file. Career-wise I ended up going down a backend/database developer path, so if I do anything with consumer-facing web applications, it's on my free time. I'm working on such an app now, and right now the fastest way I can get anything done…

Have a look at the Yii framework.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#96

Post by beernutz »

ary wrote: post #64
pud wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paraphrased: > Some people write crappy code in CFML. Yes. But people write crappy code in [your preferred language] too. There's nothing inherent in CFML that forces people to write bad or hard-to-understand code. > OMG can you believe some people still use TABLES??? view source

I stand by my comment. A few things to note. > Some people write crappy code in CFML. Yes. But people write crappy code in [your preferred language] too. No, I said CFML code is universally hard to understand. Even more so for people already familiar with more popular languages. > OMG can you believe some people still use TABLES??? view source. That example was given to make a point about dated skill sets. I didn't i…

CFML is NOT universally hard to understand. I have been programming over 25 years, and use/have used all kinds of languages. CFML is just another tool.

If you don't like tag based language, you can use pure scripting in CFML pages. Also, nothing in CFML requires or even leads ANYONE to use table based layout. I don't know where you got that idea from.

When i first looked at CFML I had distaste for what i saw. The problem is, what i saw was other peoples bad code. Once i really dove in and started writing CFML myself, i found it is like any other language in that, you can write beautiful, clean, easy to understand and modify code.

CFML has a LOT of things built into it that make db backed web development VERY nice, including:

Db queries and transactions as a first class language member. Pdf generation, ftp access, email sending, graphing, ALL are first class language features, not to mention native use of java libraries.

Don't get me wrong, i see the value in frameworks like ROR. I just think CFML gets a bad rep when it does not deserve it.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#97

Post by ebiester »

JasPanesar wrote: post #30
ebiester wrote: post #27

The only piece that made me cringe was CFML. I promise that a better life awaits you if you have the courage to break free.

Cringing aint so different than laughing ;) I work in 7-8 languages, was just wondering referring to my post: - What was your experience with CFML that made you cringe - Is it possible the same can happen in any language - What is better, in what way? Always looking to use better tools if they really get more done with less effort :)

I will admit that my CFML experience is limited to studying it for an interview (that made me not want the job) and learning it well enough to read old source code for a new application based off the old. (The app was MX 7)

My primary complaints were (as everyone) the verbosity - I've never seen a more verbose templating system, which led people to copy and paste all around. While there were some CFCs, those were mostly for tying to java backend. All this could happen in ASP, for example, but CF seemed to make it painful to do the right thing.

Of course it could happen in other languages, but my experience let me to cringe whenever CF was mentioned.

The OP used Microsoft already, so I'd look along those lines for him, even though my professional life is in java (95% javascript/HTML application with minimal templating from JSP)and my current weekend project is in rails. Razor looks like a nifty templating engine in ASP.NET MVC, for example.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#98

Post by mark242 »

Hisoka wrote: post #94
nhashem wrote: post #9

This is great. Seriously. I cut my teeth in the early 2000s writing the type of PHP code that would make your eyes bleed. Global variables everywhere. HTML/PHP/MySQL in the same file. Career-wise I ended up going down a backend/database developer path, so if I do anything with consumer-facing web applications, it's on my free time. I'm working on such an app now, and right now the fastest way I can get anything done…

That's not a bad strategy. I also believe in "Just get it out and done ASAP and brush it up like heck afterwards". Worry about injection attacks, efficiency issues, scaling after you gain some traction. You can always rewrite later when it becomes an issue.

Can you please list out the applications you've created? I'd like to add them to my "never ever register on these sites" list.

If you're only worrying about injection attacks "...after you gain some traction" or "...when it becomes an issue" you're already too late, and I don't ever want to trust any of my private data with you, ever. This is the 21st century. Scrubbing and validating user input is _trivial_ now, framework or no.

Please, please, please, everyone who reads this, spend a day reading the OWASP guidelines, and _use_ their sample code. This isn't difficult, and it makes your applications a million times more secure _on_ _day_ _one_.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#99

Post by mkr-hn »

Hisoka wrote: post #94
nhashem wrote: post #9

This is great. Seriously. I cut my teeth in the early 2000s writing the type of PHP code that would make your eyes bleed. Global variables everywhere. HTML/PHP/MySQL in the same file. Career-wise I ended up going down a backend/database developer path, so if I do anything with consumer-facing web applications, it's on my free time. I'm working on such an app now, and right now the fastest way I can get anything done…

That's not a bad strategy. I also believe in "Just get it out and done ASAP and brush it up like heck afterwards". Worry about injection attacks, efficiency issues, scaling after you gain some traction. You can always rewrite later when it becomes an issue.

You're classing injection attacks with scaling and efficiency? I want to believe I've misread.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#100

Post by endtime »

revorad wrote: post #50
pud wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well damn, you're right. Looks like they were Hacker News'd. Fortunately Xeround's database servers are still up, but this is a bit disconcerting.

I wanted to give them a try but if a scalable database company can't handle HN traffic, it makes me think twice.

They may be using something cheap for their homepage because they (understandably) don't expect to get hit hard there.
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