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What will enter the public domain in 2022

publicdomainreview.org

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Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#141

Post by bruce511 »

Kalium wrote: post #134
bruce511 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to fix something, you first have to articulate how it is broken. And it seems to me that, from the replies, there are many different ways people perceive the current system. Some are clearly thinking mostly about software - patent trolls or old games that can no longer be played. Others are concerned with writing, like songs, books or blogs. And for some reason Disney and Microsoft are the ones out to buy ev…

> So back to copyright - you made it, you control it, the only question seems to be - for how long? Which leads us to the question of why it should indeed ever expire? Patents have a public good when they expire - but what public good happens when copyrights expire seems less clear to me... A good question indeed! And, fortunately, one history is well-equipped to answer. You might find the history of the Statute of A…

I'm not sure the linked article explains the public good in copyrights expiring - perhaps that the public had access to topical works improving their lives? Would that be true now? Even allowing for the fact that many copyrighted works are currently distributed freely?

Maybe I could phrase the question this way - after how much time should, um, Microsoft be allowed to take a GPL licensed work, and use it in their own closed code? 10 years? 20? 50? Never?

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#142

Post by chrismcb »

jedberg wrote: post #103
bcgraham wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you went this route, I’d push it out farther and make the cut steeper. Maybe after 20 years you start doing X%, where X is (Years - 20)*2. I really don’t want to make it harder for people to survive on their creative output for their whole careers. But that’s the focus: providing for a family, maybe even fabulously, but for one generation only.

I don't see why someone should get to live a lifetime on their creative output. My goal is to make it harder to do that. There is no reason someone should be able to make one hit song and then never work again.

Why not? If the song is that good. Our put it another way, of person A makes an awesome song, why should person B make a bunch of money off of it 50 years later?

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#143

Post by bruce511 »

dwohnitmok wrote: post #138
bruce511 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to fix something, you first have to articulate how it is broken. And it seems to me that, from the replies, there are many different ways people perceive the current system. Some are clearly thinking mostly about software - patent trolls or old games that can no longer be played. Others are concerned with writing, like songs, books or blogs. And for some reason Disney and Microsoft are the ones out to buy ev…

> public good happens when copyrights expire seems less clear to me People can build upon the original work to make it better or use parts of it in their own work, instead of making things from scratch (things like music remixes, free translation, restoration of obsolete software etc.)

I hear this argument, but eh. You want to write a song, go write on, you don't need to mix someone else's. And if you do, go pay them something instead of just freeloading.

Translations from one language to another I get, but again, if you want to make money translating books, go talk to the author and give them a share. Or write your own book in chosen language.

Unless you have the source code to obsolete abandoned software you can't build on it anyway. And if you do, and it is abandoned, then who's to stop you building on it now?

And again, what _public good_ comes from any of this? If you want to create, then create, don't remix..

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#144

Post by Kalium »

bruce511 wrote: post #141
Kalium wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So back to copyright - you made it, you control it, the only question seems to be - for how long? Which leads us to the question of why it should indeed ever expire? Patents have a public good when they expire - but what public good happens when copyrights expire seems less clear to me... A good question indeed! And, fortunately, one history is well-equipped to answer. You might find the history of the Statute of A…

I'm not sure the linked article explains the public good in copyrights expiring - perhaps that the public had access to topical works improving their lives? Would that be true now? Even allowing for the fact that many copyrighted works are currently distributed freely? Maybe I could phrase the question this way - after how much time should, um, Microsoft be allowed to take a GPL licensed work, and use it in their own…

Some would contend that preventing perpetual private censorship improves the lives of the public.

Personally, I would be very impressed with any code still useful for incorporation into current things after 20 years. Certainly worth unshackling the original work from copyright.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#145

Post by peeters »

coredog64 wrote: post #113
jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

Wouldn’t it be easier to use a simpler mathematical formula? First renewal is fee^2. Second is fee^3, etc. Balance the fee and the term, but eventually you’ll hit a point where the renewal fee is a trillion dollars. If Disney wants to pay off the national debt to keep copyright on “Steamboat Willy” I’m not going to complain. That avoids the income reporting aspect and allows people to make straightforward time-based…

> First renewal is fee^2. Second is fee^3, etc

What's a cubic dollar?

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#146

Post by bruce511 »

chrismcb wrote: post #137
bruce511 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to fix something, you first have to articulate how it is broken. And it seems to me that, from the replies, there are many different ways people perceive the current system. Some are clearly thinking mostly about software - patent trolls or old games that can no longer be played. Others are concerned with writing, like songs, books or blogs. And for some reason Disney and Microsoft are the ones out to buy ev…

Limited time because it is in the Constitution. But also it allowed others to build on your creation. Sherlock Holmes is a wonderful example. Most of Holmes is in public domain. And recently the has been a rich at of culture created. Movies, television series, additional books. Personally I think the main thing that is broken is the the expiration date. The Constitution says "finite" and while there is a finite limit…

I agree, the time limit seems arbitrary. And sure there are a handful of works that are famous enough to allow for the creation of new, obviously derivative works.

Not that we are exactly short of original movie and TV content - but now we can have a few more derivative sherlock homes, so yay...

So if finite means a time limit, then isn't any limit arbitrary? Should an author live to see their work exploited in their own lifetime? If we make it say 40 years, how will RMS feel when oracle starts deriving Gnu Hurd code to make a new OS?

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#147

Post by LiquidPolymer »

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

As someone who makes decent income via royalties from my copyrighted work, I object to this proposal.

Purely from a record keeping perspective, the additional work required for my small business would add a considerable burden. And my accountant would probably have to do the math - thus costing me even more in fees.

Large corporations like Disney and MCI are not the only entities who use copyright to protect property and income. A single creator like myself (been in the photo biz for 32 years now) can make a living in this realm.

Yet I fight to defend my copyright every year from infringement and misuse. It is difficult and exhausting enough without additional burden.

Just in the past few years a new breed of lawyers has been cultivating the business of pursuing infringement. I’ll be honest, my income has been boosted from the frequent settlements from the lawyers that now represent my work. I’m amazed how many deep pocket companies expect to use (my) content for free without much worry. My work is incredibly expensive and difficult to produce. Honestly it feels like sweet justice to make them pay.

Creative Commons exists for those that want more liberal copy sharing. Copyright does not need “fixing” from my perspective.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#148

Post by dwohnitmok »

bruce511 wrote: post #143
dwohnitmok wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> public good happens when copyrights expire seems less clear to me People can build upon the original work to make it better or use parts of it in their own work, instead of making things from scratch (things like music remixes, free translation, restoration of obsolete software etc.)

I hear this argument, but eh. You want to write a song, go write on, you don't need to mix someone else's. And if you do, go pay them something instead of just freeloading. Translations from one language to another I get, but again, if you want to make money translating books, go talk to the author and give them a share. Or write your own book in chosen language. Unless you have the source code to obsolete abandoned…

What do you define as a public good? All of these can be done with lower friction when copyright expires. Is that not a public good? Maybe it's a minor public good in your eyes that is outweighed by the benefits to the individual, but it certainly qualifies as something advantageous for the public.

> and it is abandoned, then who's to stop you building on it now?

A copyright troll who just sits on copyrights without doing anything about them. Again maybe you argue that it's their right to do so, which is fine and is argument that perhaps the hit to an individual good is not worth the public good provided, but it's clearly also a public good, however small, to remove that copyright troll.

(Also in the particular case of music there is a very finite cap on the number of copywritable musical phrases, since there are comparatively very few musical phrases that are compatible with Western musical theory and aren't just noise, we're already seeing lawsuits over this. With an infinite copyright system it's very possible that effectively all new music would have to pay royalties within a few decades)

EDIT: To put it another way, freeloading is basically just another way of saying "public good" (a library is allowing patrons to freeload off publishers, a public park is freeloading off property, etc.). It's just one that implicitly prioritizes individual good as well (which is totally fine, the two are often in tension and must be balanced against each other).

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#149

Post by matheusmoreira »

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

5 years duration. More than enough time to make a fortune. No extensions ever.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#150

Post by bruce511 »

Kalium wrote: post #144
bruce511 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the linked article explains the public good in copyrights expiring - perhaps that the public had access to topical works improving their lives? Would that be true now? Even allowing for the fact that many copyrighted works are currently distributed freely? Maybe I could phrase the question this way - after how much time should, um, Microsoft be allowed to take a GPL licensed work, and use it in their own…

Some would contend that preventing perpetual private censorship improves the lives of the public. Personally, I would be very impressed with any code still useful for incorporation into current things after 20 years. Certainly worth unshackling the original work from copyright.

Prepare to be impressed!

All the following are still actively using code that I'd more than 20 years old;

Gnu user tools, as used in Gnu Linux. Linux kernel. Pretty much all databases. (sqlite for example is 21 years old). Much of Windows, and Ms office.

Not to mention mountains of my own code, still in production. 20 years is nothing in coding terms.

Most developrs I know are small or single, and have one or two products they've been working on for over 20 years.

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