Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why must you laugh at my back end?

blog.pud.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 230 posts

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#61

Post by georgieporgie »

ary wrote: post #51

Cold Fusion? No, no... no . > CFML. I really like programming in CFML (a programming language, “ColdFusion Markup Language,” as opposed to ColdFusion, a commercial CFML interpreter made by Adobe). I know it’s not "cool" like Node.js or Clojure or even RoR. Doctors used to bleed people with leeches to get out the "bad humors". They stopped using that "tool" for a reason. It was a bad tool , and better "tools" came alo…

These old CF developers are, in my anecdotal experience, the kind people that learned one type of development and stuck with it for a long, long time.

That's basically the majority of developers, in any language.

I'm not going to bother defending the mindset of the author, though I suggest that if you examine concepts like toolset familiarity, code craftsmanship, and zen, you may see that his way is a path to happiness. (and honestly, from what I recall of CF in my college days, I liked it no less than PHP)

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#62

Post by qaexl »

(1) I have respect for people who can put a project together and get revenue flowing through it.

(2) This technology stack sucks.

(3) That your technology stack sucks does not mean you suck.

(4) Maslow's Four Stages of Competence starts with Unconscious Incompetence. You don't even know you are unskilled. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence)

(5) This isn't a popularity contest. (http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...) Being cool and being in the in-crowd has nothing to do with your technology stack. That goes for nerds too (http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html)

(6) The tone of this article is defensive. The issues relates to identity, not technology.

(7) Relax, people.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#63

Post by Goronmon »

PedroCandeias wrote: post #18

I don't hang out with a lot of programmers and I guess this is the reason. This "laughing" the op alludes to. This endless discussion of what language or back end is the best. I find it impossible to talk about programming with people who would rather indoctrinate me on the benefits of their chosen language than talk about, say, data structures. It's like arguing about what colour is the best. It's pointless. So big…

I don't hang out with a lot of programmers and I guess this is the reason. This "laughing" the op alludes to.

Actually, what this means is that you shouldn't hang out with douchbags, programmers or not. As I can guarantee you, there are just many non-techie douchbags as there are techie ones.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#64

Post by ary »

pud wrote: post #55
ary wrote: post #51

Cold Fusion? No, no... no . > CFML. I really like programming in CFML (a programming language, “ColdFusion Markup Language,” as opposed to ColdFusion, a commercial CFML interpreter made by Adobe). I know it’s not "cool" like Node.js or Clojure or even RoR. Doctors used to bleed people with leeches to get out the "bad humors". They stopped using that "tool" for a reason. It was a bad tool , and better "tools" came alo…

Paraphrased: > Some people write crappy code in CFML. Yes. But people write crappy code in [your preferred language] too. There's nothing inherent in CFML that forces people to write bad or hard-to-understand code. > OMG can you believe some people still use TABLES??? view source

I stand by my comment. A few things to note.

  > Some people write crappy code in CFML.
  Yes. But people write crappy code in [your preferred language] too.
No, I said CFML code is universally hard to understand. Even more so for people already familiar with more popular languages.

  > OMG can you believe some people still use TABLES???
  view source.
That example was given to make a point about dated skill sets. I didn't imply that your Tumblr blog was table based.

Edit:

To InnocentB's point about HN's HTML. Does anyone here think HN's markup is meant at all to be inspirational? My take has always been that pg has priorities, and a layout for HN firmly based on cleaner HTML & CSS isn't high on that list.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#65

Post by rmason »

ary wrote: post #51

Cold Fusion? No, no... no . > CFML. I really like programming in CFML (a programming language, “ColdFusion Markup Language,” as opposed to ColdFusion, a commercial CFML interpreter made by Adobe). I know it’s not "cool" like Node.js or Clojure or even RoR. Doctors used to bleed people with leeches to get out the "bad humors". They stopped using that "tool" for a reason. It was a bad tool , and better "tools" came alo…

What I find sad is people making judgements based on twelve year old information. Like most languages CFML has evolved.

People writing CFML today use MVC frameworks, use ORM and the cloud. Yes it is still easy for beginners to write bad code, I think that may be more true in ColdFusion than in other languages. But getting started easily can also be a virtue.

You might be surprised but a lot of the ColdFusion community don't have tunnel vision and are familiar with a lot of other languages.

http://www.bennadel.com/blog/2061-Seven-Languages-In-Seven-W...

http://corfield.org/blog/post.cfm/learning-clojure

Sometimes another language is a better choice for a given task. We write CFML because we like it and are more productive in it, even if it isn't cool.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#66

Post by PedroCandeias »

humbledrone wrote: post #54
scott_s wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we was just trying to differentiate between advocating a particular technology versus discussing a fundamental idea. Using the examples that other people have given from hobbies and sports, it's like the inclination to discuss gear instead of the activity itself.

Discussing software tools as a programmer is nothing at all like discussing lenses on a camera. As far as I'm aware, there's no lens out there that can increase your productivity as a photographer by tenfold. Choosing Ruby over assembly language for a webapp could _easily_ increase your productivity by tenfold (probably more like a hundredfold). Obviously not every software tool discussion is as exaggerated as that,…

The assembly vs ruby analogy is indeed a stretch, but I get your point. Still, what you're talking about boils down to objective discussion and that's something I really like. My problem is with those folks who, instead of having sane debates, get all religious with their programming language(s) of choice.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#67

Post by InnocentB »

ary wrote: post #64
pud wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paraphrased: > Some people write crappy code in CFML. Yes. But people write crappy code in [your preferred language] too. There's nothing inherent in CFML that forces people to write bad or hard-to-understand code. > OMG can you believe some people still use TABLES??? view source

I stand by my comment. A few things to note. > Some people write crappy code in CFML. Yes. But people write crappy code in [your preferred language] too. No, I said CFML code is universally hard to understand. Even more so for people already familiar with more popular languages. > OMG can you believe some people still use TABLES??? view source. That example was given to make a point about dated skill sets. I didn't i…

I think he's referring to Hacker News, which is table-based.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#68

Post by icebraining »

dclaysmith wrote: post #4

The synchronizing with Dropbox is pretty clever. Had never thought of that. Probably some latency issues--it wouldn't suit all cases but definitely would be a simple fix to a few problems I've had in the past.

Do you (the plural you) really trust Dropbox Inc. enough to give them access to all your application files on your servers?

Personally I don't use Dropbox for anything minimally sensitive (basically, anything that I haven't downloaded from the web) without putting it on a Truecrypt container. Maybe I'm just paranoid, though.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#69

Post by PedroCandeias »

Goronmon wrote: post #63
PedroCandeias wrote: post #18

I don't hang out with a lot of programmers and I guess this is the reason. This "laughing" the op alludes to. This endless discussion of what language or back end is the best. I find it impossible to talk about programming with people who would rather indoctrinate me on the benefits of their chosen language than talk about, say, data structures. It's like arguing about what colour is the best. It's pointless. So big…

I don't hang out with a lot of programmers and I guess this is the reason. This "laughing" the op alludes to. Actually, what this means is that you shouldn't hang out with douchbags, programmers or not. As I can guarantee you, there are just many non-techie douchbags as there are techie ones.

I know, I know. I just seem to have a knack to draw all the d-bag ones for some reason. That's why I mostly stick to hn these days. I like it here.

Re: Why must you laugh at my back end?

#70

Post by ary »

georgieporgie wrote: post #61
ary wrote: post #51

Cold Fusion? No, no... no . > CFML. I really like programming in CFML (a programming language, “ColdFusion Markup Language,” as opposed to ColdFusion, a commercial CFML interpreter made by Adobe). I know it’s not "cool" like Node.js or Clojure or even RoR. Doctors used to bleed people with leeches to get out the "bad humors". They stopped using that "tool" for a reason. It was a bad tool , and better "tools" came alo…

These old CF developers are, in my anecdotal experience, the kind people that learned one type of development and stuck with it for a long, long time. That's basically the majority of developers, in any language. I'm not going to bother defending the mindset of the author, though I suggest that if you examine concepts like toolset familiarity, code craftsmanship, and zen, you may see that his way is a path to happine…

> That's basically the majority of developers, in any language.

You have a point there, but I'd argue that on a platform like the web the impact of skill stagnation is much bigger.

Post reply on HN