What will enter the public domain in 2022 • Hacker News Board

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#131

Post by jedberg » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

coredog64 wrote: post #113

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

Wouldn’t it be easier to use a simpler mathematical formula? First renewal is fee^2. Second is fee^3, etc. Balance the fee and the term, but eventually you’ll hit a point where the renewal fee is a trillion dollars. If Disney wants to pay off the national debt to keep copyright on “Steamboat Willy” I’m not going to complain. That avoids the income reporting aspect and allows people to make straightforward time-based…

I worry that any fixed fee pushes out small publishers in favor of large ones. Disney can afford any fee you put that a lot of small publishers can't.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#132

Post by bruce511 » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:10 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

In order to fix something, you first have to articulate how it is broken. And it seems to me that, from the replies, there are many different ways people perceive the current system.

Some are clearly thinking mostly about software - patent trolls or old games that can no longer be played. Others are concerned with writing, like songs, books or blogs. And for some reason Disney and Microsoft are the ones out to buy everything.

IMO software doesn't need much fixing other than the eradication of software patents (which, um, is not copyright). We don't need central govt registries for software (even before we discuss which govt - I assume they meant the Chinese govt - I mean why not - they have the largest population, don't bow to business pressure, and are good at beurocracy.)

So back to copyright - you made it, you control it, the only question seems to be - for how long? Which leads us to the question of why it should indeed ever expire? Patents have a public good when they expire - but what public good happens when copyrights expire seems less clear to me...

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#133

Post by mitchdoogle » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:13 AM UTC

mdaniel wrote: post #21

keithnz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mainly use ViolentMonkey for my own scripts

As do I. I've never published anything on any community userscript website mostly because I am scratching my own itch(es) and find it suspicious that anyone else would have the same itch and yet want it solved in exactly the same way

There's a lot of people out there. Some might want things to behavior a certain way, but then come across your way and decide it's better, or at least, good enough. Sharing is caring

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#134

Post by Kalium » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:18 AM UTC

bruce511 wrote: post #132

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

In order to fix something, you first have to articulate how it is broken. And it seems to me that, from the replies, there are many different ways people perceive the current system. Some are clearly thinking mostly about software - patent trolls or old games that can no longer be played. Others are concerned with writing, like songs, books or blogs. And for some reason Disney and Microsoft are the ones out to buy ev…

> So back to copyright - you made it, you control it, the only question seems to be - for how long? Which leads us to the question of why it should indeed ever expire? Patents have a public good when they expire - but what public good happens when copyrights expire seems less clear to me...

A good question indeed! And, fortunately, one history is well-equipped to answer. You might find the history of the Statute of Anne interesting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne In short, perpetual copyright means that publishing is essentially governed by private laws rather than public ones.

Some, particularly Americans, may also find it relevant that non-expiring copyright is quite clearly forbidden by the constitutional clause that enables copyright to exist.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#135

Post by bruce511 » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

I tried to avoid your absurd fee idea, but failed. So here goes...

A) which govt gets your fee?

B) does paying 1 govt cover you in all countries? Or just 1? What if different countries set different fee levels?

C) % of revenue? Not profit. Who's revenue? Creator? Manufacturer? Distributor? Portol? All 4? (think author, publisher, bookshop, amazon)

D) $100 per what? Per blog posting? Tweet? Novel? Song? If I write a song I should pay $100 per year to assert I wrote it? Forever? In one country or all of them?

E) assuming you don't think I should pay 200 different countries both annual fees and % of revenue - and assuming you're not happy to peg the price in Malawian kwacha - presumably it'll be cheaper in one country than another - so we should all register in Trinidad and Tobago where they only charge the equivalent of a dime?

I could go on, but let's leave all suggestions of fees out of it...

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#136

Post by bo1024 » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

To get copyright on a digital work you must submit+register a copy. Once the copyright expires, Library of Congress hosts it as a torrent. Max copyright term 20 years, and/or fee increasing exponentially to renew each year.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#137

Post by chrismcb » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:34 AM UTC

bruce511 wrote: post #132

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

In order to fix something, you first have to articulate how it is broken. And it seems to me that, from the replies, there are many different ways people perceive the current system. Some are clearly thinking mostly about software - patent trolls or old games that can no longer be played. Others are concerned with writing, like songs, books or blogs. And for some reason Disney and Microsoft are the ones out to buy ev…

Limited time because it is in the Constitution. But also it allowed others to build on your creation. Sherlock Holmes is a wonderful example. Most of Holmes is in public domain. And recently the has been a rich at of culture created. Movies, television series, additional books. Personally I think the main thing that is broken is the the expiration date. The Constitution says "finite" and while there is a finite limit any limit that is longer than the average lifespan is essentially unlimited. Basically nothing created in your lifetime will be in public domain. And to me that goes against the spirit of "finite"

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#138

Post by dwohnitmok » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:36 AM UTC

bruce511 wrote: post #132

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

In order to fix something, you first have to articulate how it is broken. And it seems to me that, from the replies, there are many different ways people perceive the current system. Some are clearly thinking mostly about software - patent trolls or old games that can no longer be played. Others are concerned with writing, like songs, books or blogs. And for some reason Disney and Microsoft are the ones out to buy ev…

> public good happens when copyrights expire seems less clear to me

People can build upon the original work to make it better or use parts of it in their own work, instead of making things from scratch (things like music remixes, free translation, restoration of obsolete software etc.)

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#139

Post by chrismcb » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:38 AM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #128

jedberg wrote: post #82

This comes up every year so I ask a question: If you could fix copyright, how would you do it? Here is what I would do: 1. All works must be registered in a government registry. If it's not in there it's not copyrighted. If you want to register a work from before the law passes, you have to prove you own it under the current system. This would solve the orphan works problem -- if no one can prove they own it, it beco…

Remove copy right. Everyone must be allowed to copy. If you’re selling devices, you must provide schematics and software sources to users.

Kim not sure what schematics have to do with copyright. But removing copyrights will essentially end the era of professional artists. It won't be impossible, but it will be difficult to be an author it musician for a living. The era of multi million dollar budget movies will end.

Re: What will enter the public domain in 2022

#140

Post by chrismcb » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 4:39 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #130

vbezhenar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remove copy right. Everyone must be allowed to copy. If you’re selling devices, you must provide schematics and software sources to users.

That's a beautiful utopia, but sadly I don't think it would fly in today's world. Also, short copyrights serve a useful purpose of encouraging invention. It's the length of time that's the problem, not that it exists.

Copyrights don't serve much of a purpose for inventions. Patents on the other hand...