Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#801

Post by thedream » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

serial_dev wrote: post #271

bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

You're in luck, because you _always_ have a choice.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#802

Post by landemva » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:34 AM UTC

fabian2k wrote: post #80

nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…

The smallpox and polio vaccines worked well. The corona shots have people still getting sick and transmitting live virus. That was not success even a couple years ago.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#803

Post by passing_by_and » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:36 AM UTC

lee wrote: post #773

passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> "We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned." Can you explicitly mention what those treatments are? I'm genuinely curious.

We have excellent outcomes with monoclonal antibody-based drugs (the expensive route). Monoclonal is interesting because we may be able to take it preemptively. We have excellent results with steroids, vitamins, weight loss and exercise (low cost).

One way to search (and ignore random people like myself) for this, is to look for different countries treatment protocols (they are often published into other languages). There is a lot of serious people working hard trying to find good solutions.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#804

Post by wolverine876 » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:36 AM UTC

mattrighetti wrote: post #501

wolverine876 wrote: post #119

I would be very happy if my government did the same. What a relief it would be! It's a public health measure, like public sanitation requirements, and driving a car that meets safety requirements. Unvaccinated people should be free to do whatever they want, short of risking infecting other people. Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins.

> Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins. I see this used every time, if you pay close attention to the phrase you will notice that it can literally be used every time by every party. There will be people thinking that you can't limit their "freedom" because a vaccine is out there at this point and those who fears for their lives can take it and forget about the virus (in most cases). There will be…

> There will be people thinking that you can't limit their "freedom" because a vaccine is out there at this point and those who fears for their lives can take it and forget about the virus (in most cases).

I don't understand this statement: Who is talking about limiting the freedom of vaccinated people and in what way?

> if you pay close attention to the phrase you will notice that it can literally be used every time by every party.

I don't see it at all. If I'm standing still and you punch me in the nose, how could both parties use that argument?

> I personally don't care about my unvaxxed friends, I hang out with them as I've always had and I do respect their choice. But I am biased towards individuals rights than "public health".

Your personal choice and 'respect' are irrelevant. You can not care about and 'respect' them choosing to drive the wrong way on the freeway with you in the car, but so what? They are still risking other people's lives.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#805

Post by landemva » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #176

gizmo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn’t simple and certainly not a matter of just vaccinating. A big part of the problem is that govt was confident that two jabs in the summer would be sufficient because of two faulty assumptions: that immunity would last and that fully vaccinated people would not spread covid.

Also, more broadly, that people would actually be willing to get vaccinated at a rate high enough to reduce the R-value below 1.

If your focus is on R value for transmission, then you will also need to eradicate it from every single cat and deer on the planet. Good luck with that.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#806

Post by mensetmanusman » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

This could probably be done with a tax.

Just like smoking is a choice and is risky enough to have financial penalties, one could do the same with unvaccinated people (who haven’t caught and survived covid yet, since surviving natural immunity is apparently more protective than the existing vaccines). This is just paying taxes into the system that will help support them later.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#807

Post by m4rtink » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

lee wrote: post #773

passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> "We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned." Can you explicitly mention what those treatments are? I'm genuinely curious.

The anti-covid pill from Pfizer looks impressive:

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/pfizer-s-good-news...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#808

Post by landemva » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #316

nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Is this the ventilator fallacy? You know, it's march 2020, and everyone is rushing to make more of those damn ventilators? If you end up on a fucking ventilator in an ICU bed, the damage is long done . The goal is not to maximize the number of people we can have on ventilators. That is an absurd idea on the same level of the "natural immunity is better than the vaccine!" insanity we got in 2021.

"natural immunity is better than the vaccine"

Has this been studied? I have natural anti-bodies and will participate in a study.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#809

Post by angelzen » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #806

This could probably be done with a tax. Just like smoking is a choice and is risky enough to have financial penalties, one could do the same with unvaccinated people (who haven’t caught and survived covid yet, since surviving natural immunity is apparently more protective than the existing vaccines). This is just paying taxes into the system that will help support them later.

This is probably the right course of action. However, it is unfeasible to derive a fair tax level in the current climate. Too many people look to force conformity and/or exact punishment, instead of engaging in a good faith tradeoff negotiation.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#810

Post by aakresearch » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #632

joeman1000 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not vaccinated, this is how I feel. I am not militant or political about it. My wife and whole family are vaccinated and I helped them to do it. As a young man, the risk of heart issues does indeed outweigh the risk of hospitalisation from the virus (as I’ve weighed it, anyhow). Victoria, Australia has hit 90% double vaccinated and case numbers have not changed here. To see this underwhelming effect in light of t…

I'm a Victorian too, this is exactly me. Everyone still laying judgement on my choice but 1) I can't go anywhere anyway 2) where is the promised herd immunity? I'm lucky to have a big house and garden, just gonna keep waiting for this to end.

Looks like there are more of us than I thought :)

My problem is that mandate is weighing so much on the "bad" side, that the "good" side is completely dwarfed. In other words, I'm unable to reason about the vax, as I never was able to make good decision in similar situation. That mandates are introduced on top of previous completely useless and hostile measures like curfews, outdoor playgrounds closures, etc. and generally divisive rhetoric doesn't help to build any trust either.