Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#791

Post by varispeed » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

serial_dev wrote: post #271

bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

I am still not back to normal after my second shot. I have shortness of breath and horrible headaches I didn't have before. I can't imagine getting another shot especially when access to doctors is very limited currently and they have been generally useless for my problems. Something like this being mandatory is crossing the line for me. I would take measures to never take it, even if it means fleeing the country or finding other ways if the borders were shut.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#792

Post by landemva » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #777

lee wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned." Can you explicitly mention what those treatments are? I'm genuinely curious.

There are various antiviral drugs which are orders of magnitude more expensive, have mediocre efficacy and a worse side effect profile compared to any of the main vaccines, and must be started within days of initial infection to work properly. They are a great addition (besides vaccines and non-pharmaceutical public health measures) for treating high-risk patients for whom the vaccines don’t provide perfect protectio…

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties, has great multi-decade safety history, and is cheaper than a soda. It also has been shown to be an effective treatment when used early in disease.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#793

Post by disambiguation » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

_moof wrote: post #79

fileeditview wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

I might be working from old info here but my understanding is that vaccination reduces the ICU burden. Assuming that's still good info, is it totally unreasonable to blame the unvaccinated for ICU overload?

Its never unreasonable to blame the victim, just bad taste.

Also consider its their tax dollars being squandered and mismanaged.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#794

Post by varispeed » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

basisword wrote: post #553

serial_dev wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

I was also very sick after my first dose. Completely fine with the booster. Don’t assume you will react the same with the booster as you did the first dose.

I was pretty fine after the first dose, but booster wrecked me.

> Don’t assume you will react the same with the booster as you did the first dose.

Works both ways unfortunately.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#795

Post by m4rtink » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

TacticalCoder wrote: post #426

somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

> 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. 50% to 60% of all the people in ICU with covid related symptoms in the EU atm are fully vaccinated. It's been lies from day one: "masks do not protect" then "masks are mandatory because they protect" (I don't know which one is correct but at least one is a lie), "you're a conspiracy theorist if you think there's any link between a virus research lab in Wuhan a…

Definitely not in the Czech ICUs - the overwhelming majority is unvaccinated and the few people with a vaccine are usually either old, with other serious conditions or both.

And by the way we are barely above 60% vaccination rate and it shows - fighting hard with neighboring Slovakia for the two worst spots in the world for number of cases per 100k people...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#796

Post by landemva » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #790

passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. Because the real problem are going to be people that will be far too sick for any treatment to help them avoid hospitalisation. And overloaded hospitals will not benefit a lot from the fact there is some treatment available. The system will benefit much more from people not requiring hospitalisation in the first plac…

'... that can only be achieved by having a large percentage of population vaccinated.'

Only?? The mortality profile is grossly _weighted_ by lifestyle choices such as low cardiovascular health, type 2 diabetes, and obesity.

I am in decent health, got quite sick with the 'rona this year, and toughed it out at home. I later got blood test to confirm anti-bodies and a recovered letter from Dr.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#797

Post by kingkingking » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #731

tomp wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. The reason people are even mentioning ICU beds are because they're trying to shift the vaccination argument from "do it for yourself, if you want to" to "you have to do it for others". If we had enough ICU beds, there would be NO argument to force people to get vaccinated, just like there is no argument to force people to not smoke or not be fat.

By not getting vaccinated aren't you a danger to others who are not vaccinated? On the other hand, I don't care if you choose to be fat or smoke yourself to death, that won't harm anyone.

Being fat is actually contagious.

And actually fills up ICUs.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#798

Post by paul7986 » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

Diederich wrote: post #595

paul7986 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just became fully vaccinated and each day since I am dealing with dizziness / lightheaded-ness spells. Everyone should take one for the team you say but do you know what the future holds for the team? You just trust emphatically what the early science says vs. waiting over time to see all of it's effects on a huge population? That and time is the true bellweather but we are forced guinea pigs to join the experiment…

> I just became fully vaccinated and each day since I am dealing with dizziness / lightheaded-ness spells. May I ask: how long have these apparent vaccination related symptoms been going on?

Go it Saturday night… Tuesday at 3 PM I start feeling lightheaded dizzy tired… Yesterday around the same time dizzy lightheaded… Same thing today

Signed angry Guinea pig

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#799

Post by passing_by_and » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #790

passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. Because the real problem are going to be people that will be far too sick for any treatment to help them avoid hospitalisation. And overloaded hospitals will not benefit a lot from the fact there is some treatment available. The system will benefit much more from people not requiring hospitalisation in the first plac…

You have a good point, thank you for stating it clearly. My contention here is that instead of promoting treatment steps, and working towards helping each other we are tearing each other apart and the discussion is oriented completely wrong. Punishing people, fines?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#800

Post by wux » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

landemva wrote: post #792

jacobolus wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are various antiviral drugs which are orders of magnitude more expensive, have mediocre efficacy and a worse side effect profile compared to any of the main vaccines, and must be started within days of initial infection to work properly. They are a great addition (besides vaccines and non-pharmaceutical public health measures) for treating high-risk patients for whom the vaccines don’t provide perfect protectio…

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties, has great multi-decade safety history, and is cheaper than a soda. It also has been shown to be an effective treatment when used early in disease.

The Cochrane Reviews are regarded as one of the preeminent collections of systematic reviews in medicine. They conclude that “overall, the reliable evidence available does not support the use of ivermectin for treatment or prevention of COVID‐19 outside of well‐designed randomized trials.”

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...

A similar conclusion regarding lack of evidence is discussed in NIH treatment guidelines:

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/ant...

In line with consensus in the field, ivermectin is not contained among the treatment guidelines of any institution at which I have practiced.