Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#781

Post by ryan_lane » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #578

Krasnol wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a paper recently circulating the media which shows the immense amount of "esoteric" people in German speaking countries. Those people are responsible for the staggering vaccination numbers and spreading of conspiracy myths around this crisis. It's so prevalent, I can't remember anyone who at least once spread some unscientific bullshit in the last 2 years here. The handling of those people in the media and…

The problem with this claim is that vaccine fanatics spread vast amounts of misinformation themselves, and often rely on it for their core arguments. Just in this thread alone, we can find people saying: 1. Vaccines would let us wipe out COVID (wrong). 2. Even harsher lockdowns would let us wipe out COVID (wrong). 3. Vaccines stop people transmitting it (wrong). 4. Vaccinated people don't end up in ICU with COVID (wr…

You're taking extreme talking points on this and making it seem like it's the norm.

Vaccines don't stop being from transmitting, but it reduces the length of infection by about 2 days, it drastically reduces the likelihood of infection, which drastically reduces the transmission rate, and recent studies have shown that it does also reduce the likelihood of transmission directly.

Vaccinated people with breakthrough cases may end up in the ICU, but the rate of hospitalization, admittance to the ICU, and cases of death are considerably lower than those who haven't been vaccinated.

Using the extreme example, and pointing out that each argument is wrong, rather than extreme, while not discussing the facts is just another form of misinformation.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#782

Post by monksy » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 1:58 AM UTC

ostenning wrote: post #697

monksy wrote: post #421

Just a heads up about what is happening in Germany: (Just got back Monday from Hamburg) 1. Entry restriction: You must be vaccinated to enter from nonEU countries (Vaccation must be in the approved list) 2. Most restaraunt/bars/outdoor gatherings are either 2G/3G. The bahn is 3g (so testing as well). Nearly everything else is 2G. This includes the food hall in the airport. Enforcement is at entry. You must show your…

Does this vaccination entry requirement exist for residents?

Probably not. But the foreigners entry requirements were that you had to be vaccinated or governmentally special. Otherwise you'll be rejected.

https://www.einreiseanmeldung.de/#/2

https://www.germany.info/us-en/coronavirus/2317268

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#783

Post by dennis_jeeves » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 1:59 AM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #604

I guess it’s easier to pass a law like this, than a law which puts the unvaccinated at the back of the queue when hospital beds run out.

The unvaccinated doctors can tend to the unvaccinated individuals. May be form their own hospitals.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#784

Post by tasogare » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:01 AM UTC

passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

We are in the worst timeline. At first I didn't had too much anger again the people willing to take part in the phase III trial, they were mostly just a SNS annoyance with their virtue signaling. Their choice, my choice. Now they're writing literal hateful messages all over the internet about people like me who made an informed choice but moreover fully supports authoritarian measures that are taken just to fuck with people. A government role is supposedly to help people, not to ruin their lives. Not to mention the huge toll on social relations and mental health of the population. It's since a long time since the covid question is not a health issue anymore, it's an excuse. The most infuriating things is how dumb the arguments of those people are, because if their vaccine were working they would be protected anyway and won't have to fear anything (also remember when 70% vaccinated was supposed to grant herd immunity? This have been memoryholed hard as well). It makes no fucking sense to push it to people under 30 who have like a chance over 300,000 to die from covid.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#785

Post by thedream » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:03 AM UTC

lee wrote: post #773

passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> "We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned." Can you explicitly mention what those treatments are? I'm genuinely curious.

Sunlight, Vitamin D, turning off the TV

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#786

Post by ryan_lane » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:05 AM UTC

hogFeast wrote: post #160

locallost wrote: post #127

As a foreigner living in Germany I could live with it if there were otherwise sound measures, but it's mostly been a bunch of wishful thinking. There was a rush last summer to open everything up despite it being relatively clear it was way too early and a lot of people really understood it as "corona is over". Even this I could understand, but this year they do the same thing again! Surprise, surprise that there is a…

It is worth remembering the "let people get on with it and they will work out" viewpoint within Europe was widely discredited by April 2020 (and ignoring the fact it worked in countries like Japan that have quite significant constraints on govt power). My conclusion from this is that, in this area, regulations are path dependent. In some countries, people will make the right choices themselves. In others, they won't.…

Japan didn't "let people get on with it and they will work out". The immigration policy is one of the strictest in the world. We've had numerous "lock downs", which weren't legally enforceable, but when the government makes a request of businesses and people, the compliance rate is very high, and though it's not enforceable, the government will publicly shame companies, and companies take their reputations extremely seriously.

People's willingness to comply with lockdowns over time has waned, because the government's response to covid has been pretty incompetent. The thing that has finally started turning things around is the high rate of vaccination.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#787

Post by throwaway12409 » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

umvi wrote: post #680

Somehow I think these super heavy handed measures toward covid are a big mistake. My opinion: - Remove all restrictions, let people assess their own risk tolerance and voluntarily follow country's health guidance (or not). - If ICUs start getting maxed out, implement bed rationing, with unvaccinated patients having lowest priority. - Tell everyone to go on with their lives and that covid is here to stay. There's no e…

Funny was just about to comment the same thing.

I think deaths amongst unvaccinated would skyrocket and then they would isolate themselves or get the shot.

The difficulty is having people dying in the street while beds are sitting vacant to keep them open in case of vaccinated ICU needs. This is non-tenable and would create outrage. Only really workable in a place like the USA for the uninsured.

Also there there would not be the appetite to see huge death stats compared to other countries.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#788

Post by m4rtink » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:09 AM UTC

labster wrote: post #413

spookthesunset wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So uh, maybe we decide that life doesn’t need to be permanently centered around Covid and just move on? And realistically that is what society will do. Move on. There are infinitely more problems in the world than just Covid. Solving for exactly Covid to the exclusion of literally everything else is complete madness. Any rational person will tell you that. Life is to short to maintain a Covid centric lifestyle… life…

> Oh yeah, and we’ve been wringing our hands about hospital capacity for 2 years now. Perhaps we should ask why there isn’t any effort at all into increasing it? Yeah seriously, it’s been two years, why haven’t we doubled the number of doctors and nurses by now? Just add more conveyor belts to our factorio.

Doubling something to fight an enemy that can grow exponentially? Good luck with that...

Also I recommend reading a bit about what working on a covid unit is like - it's hell on many levels. Even just the ammount of death and personal tragedies they witness is insane and easily PTSD inducing.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#789

Post by paul7986 » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

paul7986 wrote: post #516

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I just became fully vaccinated and each day since I am dealing with dizziness / lightheaded-ness spells. Everyone should take one for the team you say but do you know what the future holds for the team? You just trust emphatically what the early science says vs. waiting over time to see all of it's effects on a huge population? That and time is the true bellweather but we are forced guinea pigs to join the experiment…

Also those who believe everything their side says the early science don't you think it's odd the FDA wants 55 years before releasing the vaccine data they have?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#790

Post by lmilcin » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned.

Because the real problem are going to be people that will be far too sick for any treatment to help them avoid hospitalisation. And overloaded hospitals will not benefit a lot from the fact there is some treatment available.

The system will benefit much more from people not requiring hospitalisation in the first place, and currently that can only be achieved by having a large percentage of population vaccinated.