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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#771

Post by dukeofdoom »

kareemm wrote: post #96
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]: - Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots - Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the wh…

At least the death stats need to be considered on an individual basis. If this is something like 30 vaccinated vs 70 unvaccinated deaths per 100,000 people. The numbers are so small that the extra 40 people might simply be people with terminal diseases like last stages of cancer, with extremely weakened state not bothering to get vaxxed and dying of the first thing that gets them, which was covid. It does not necessarily mean the vaccine would have concurred any benefit or saved their life.

If there's simply a large number of people in such situations as I suspect there are. It would be deceptive to extrapolate to the general population based on them.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#772

Post by throwaway12409 »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

> it's in everyone's best interest to get vaccinated.

Except the few who die from it. About ~20 per million will die after having the vaccine (although there are not exact numbers on whether vaccine was the cause). There are lots of well-documented cases.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#773

Post by lee »

passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> "We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned."

Can you explicitly mention what those treatments are? I'm genuinely curious.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#774

Post by renewiltord »

drewg123 wrote: post #466
renewiltord wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the wide variety of US state responses, no one is experiencing "complete failure of our healthcare" so I think we'll be all right.

I spent over 2 weeks in a US hospital in 3 separate stays this fall, and while its not "complete failure", it is pretty close. ER overflowing, nurses with 2x the patient loads of 2019, etc. It is not 100% clear to me if this was because of an excess of COVID patients draining nursing staff, or it was because of staff leaving because they did not want to deal with COVID paitents, vaccine/testing requirements, etc, and…

Thank you for your information. It's helpful.

To OP: Define "complete failure" and if it is something we can agree on as "complete failure", I will have a deputy post $200 on longbets.org 1:1 odds (side chain $2k) on whether or not a coming "complete failure" will occur in all US states that perform neither option 1 nor option 2 stated in OP:

> 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc.

> 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc.

If no such states exist by some date, we can just each take our money back. If my deputy can meet you and you will notarize your position, I will up my side chain bet to $25k.

If we can do that and you will post the collateral, I will up my side chain bet to $100k. I will meet all the conditions you have to.

I am willing to iterate down the sum to reflect any changing definitions of "complete failure" till we have agreement. I am not going to donate more than the $200 to longbets.org. If I win, I take your cash. If you win, you take mine. I am willing to travel to make this bet in a jurisdiction where it is permissible, subject to there existing an escrow service we can both agree on there.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#775

Post by School-Cotton »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

Another option is to not reconfigure our society, and accept the fact that life expectancy is now permanently slightly lower than it was in 2019.

I hate this argument I keep seeing, that we have no choice but to do whatever is necessary to stop Covid. Of course we have a choice, and it is a legitimate political question, not a scientific one.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#776

Post by throwaway12409 »

shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

As a German resident, I know anti-vaxers. They use fake paper certificates and they are accepted everywhere no problem. Unless it becomes mandatory to ONLY scan QR codes, they will not be stopped (I assume QR codes cannot be faked atm).

There are also lots of people checking who don't care and don't check properly. As 2/3 are unvaxxed, I imagine there are a lot of people who are anti-vax that check. I have been waived through without a thorough check most times.

On one side, I'm angry at them for being dumb. But on the other side, I respect their freedom of what to do with their body. Many of them resist because they don't like the government telling them what they must do to their body, or they come from countries where they don't trust their government. There are so many occasions in life where you don't want to do something, even though it may be for the best, because you don't like the person or group of people telling you what to do. Like when someone tells an angry person to "just calm down".

I think it's fair to place restrictions on them as long as the ICU beds are at an unacceptable level of capacity. But we should face the reality that unvaccinated people will always be among us.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#777

Post by jacobolus »

lee wrote: post #773
passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

> "We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned." Can you explicitly mention what those treatments are? I'm genuinely curious.

There are various antiviral drugs which are orders of magnitude more expensive, have mediocre efficacy and a worse side effect profile compared to any of the main vaccines, and must be started within days of initial infection to work properly.

They are a great addition (besides vaccines and non-pharmaceutical public health measures) for treating high-risk patients for whom the vaccines don’t provide perfect protection (e.g. the very elderly and immune compromised), but a poor primary response.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#778

Post by throwaway12409 »

serial_dev wrote: post #271
bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

Would you fight for your country in a war if conscripted?

I always think about this. If you were born at the wrong time, your government was essentially sending you off to die against your will at the age of 18. It's pure luck that this is not the case.

Compared to the 1 in a million risk of dying from a vaccine, I couldn't imagine what my ancestors would think of me.

Although funnily enough, many in the military and police are antivax. I really can't get my head around this one.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#779

Post by [deleted] »

Gasp0de wrote: post #405
renewiltord wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the wide variety of US state responses, no one is experiencing "complete failure of our healthcare" so I think we'll be all right.

Because half the population can't afford to see a doctor and would rather die than leave a pile of debt to their families?

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#780

Post by swader999 »

yladiz wrote: post #20
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Focus on early treatment. Drugs like ivermectin, hcq, fluvoxamine
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