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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#681

Post by tomp »

ryandrake wrote: post #150
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

> And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make anti-vaxxers even more convinced that this is a big conspiracy. You could say this about any law that enforces some uncomfortable behavior change. Anyone who remembers when seat belt laws became real, sees history repeating…

> COVID has been a challenge for the same reason Climate Change is challenging: They both require collective cooperative action from people, and you can't rely on everyone having a natural desire to do the right thing

No, it's challenging because people know they're being manipulated and taken advantage of.

As with COVID, as with climate change. Mayor of SF enacting mask mandates while dining/partying unmasked. Elites flying private to Davos to discuss climate change.

Resistance exists because politicians refuse to implement obviously sensible, effective and, most importantly, fair policies - no lockdowns (Sweden style) & care/protection targeting the vulnerable for COVID, and revenue neutral carbon tax for Climate Change.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#682

Post by Krasnol »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #382
Krasnol wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a paper recently circulating the media which shows the immense amount of "esoteric" people in German speaking countries. Those people are responsible for the staggering vaccination numbers and spreading of conspiracy myths around this crisis. It's so prevalent, I can't remember anyone who at least once spread some unscientific bullshit in the last 2 years here. The handling of those people in the media and…

By esoteric you mean pseudoscience believers, homeopaths and the like? Recently moved back from Germany after five years there, homeopathy depressingly common and accepted there, even by many medical professionals.

Yes this is what I meant.

We still have homeopathic pills and "treatments" which are being paid by the health insurance. Something which goes back to some politicians wife who believed in it and was able to influence the political process. The huge Steiner tradition in here is catastrophic. We just recently had COVID running wild in a Waldorf school. Turns out, faked vaccination certificates were very popular...

It's quite embarrassing and it's actually the first time the side effects of this madness come up in public discourse.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#683

Post by kbelder »

lorenzfx wrote: post #677

I'm surprised to find this many anti vaxxers on hn. I would have expected that the community was a lot more rational.

Don't conflate 'anti-vax' with 'anti-vax-mandate'. The two positions have entirely different scientific and moral bases. I would think the second group is also much larger.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#684

Post by deft »

MadSudaca wrote: post #348
lambdaba wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was myopic cargo-culting since day one. I used to think that over the years I'd gotten smarter and subtler from my initial libertarian leanings, but this has opened up my eyes on how bad authorities can mess up, and more worryingly convince their people they're doing the right thing.

As libertarian leaning and someone who wants the state at a good distance, I believe that in many cases people are doing what they can, sadly, it fails to be enough. However, what’s the alternative?

The alternative would be doing it with some honesty. The measures don't work, but they were a nice attempt.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#685

Post by Overtonwindow »

Related: Counterpart, television show from Starz that is now on Prime. Germany, a flu virus, and espionage are the top themes. Made just before the Pandemic, starring JK Simmons. Spooky foreshadows a lot of the mask mandates, vaccines, and anti-germ mentality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpart_(TV_series)

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#686

Post by drstewart »

kbelder wrote: post #683
lorenzfx wrote: post #677

I'm surprised to find this many anti vaxxers on hn. I would have expected that the community was a lot more rational.

Don't conflate 'anti-vax' with 'anti-vax-mandate'. The two positions have entirely different scientific and moral bases. I would think the second group is also much larger.

They've changed the definition to obfuscate this very important point.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-vaxxer

>Definition of anti-vaxxer

>: a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#687

Post by cm2187 »

camgunz wrote: post #674
cm2187 wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are equating not taking the vaccine to being anti-vax. That makes a nice slogan but that is not true. For instance it makes zero sense for people who already got covid to get vaccinated. By now that must be 20-30% of the population in most western countries. The benefits for a healthy 20-something are also spurious. This is not the population that will flood ICUs. So you can perfectly decline to take that vaccine…

> The benefits for a healthy 20-something are also spurious. They can get it and spread it to others who are more vulnerable. Unbelievable that you and others still don't know the most basic facts about diseases, even two years into a pandemic. Please get educated and stop spreading misinformation.

I will pass on the derogatory comments.

Except that it doesn’t look like the vaccine is doing much to prevent transmissions. The UK has been near 90% vaccinated since this summer, and despite that it experiences a high number of cases, of the same order of magnitude than pre-vaccination. And it seems to be the same in other high vaccination countries.

Also if you are vulnerable and unvaccinated, you own the risk.

The only thing vaccines seem to be efficient at is reducing hospitalisations, which at the end of the day is what matters.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#688

Post by tomrod »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

Well said.

It's a civic duty to be vaccinated. It's the rational, sane, and most personally and socially beneficial policy. Were this a game theory context we would be saying that getting the vaccine strictly dominates not getting the vaccine.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#689

Post by gautamdivgi »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I’m pro-vax. I’ve taken the shots and the booster. But I fail to see the point of this lockdown. If you are 70% vaccinated as a country and the remainder of the 30% is possibly low risk why lockdown? You’ll never get to 100% vaccinated or even 90%. If the 70% vaccinated isn’t reducing the load on the hospitals we have an issue with vaccinations.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#690

Post by atsaloli »

I-M-S wrote: post #609
atsaloli wrote: post #442

I was born in Soviet Russia, where the party line was: there is no God, there is no Soul, there is no Truth, and truth is what we tell the people. My family came to America to get away from that savage society and to live in a free country, based on voluntary cooperation (free market) not force and violence and coercion. In communism, the group is all and the individual is nothing. I do not believe it is okay to viol…

How old were you when you left USSR?

I was twelve.
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