Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#601

Post by kelnos » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

chippy wrote: post #449

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

Its worth remembering that division is due to the other side always . This is an absolute statement as division is literally caused by dividing between "sides". You get a divided country when the people within it divides each other into sides. Its never been the case when people have said "our side has caused the division". never. That is the irony you should be finding! If you do finally see this irony you might fin…

If 70% want one thing and 30% want another, it doesn't matter who "caused" the division; in a democratic society you should be doing the thing that 70% of the people want.

Except! And this is a big "except": when doing the thing the majority wants would violate the civil rights of the minority. The problem (in the US, at least; I can't speak for Germany) is that the minority is trying to paint vaccination as a civil rights issue, essentially. I can see the argument, but it all feels a bit hypocritical, as I expect most of the minority who are complaining now were vaccinated (by mandate) against other diseases when they entered public school as children (and vaccinate their children by mandate before enrolling them in school). And while there is still some resistance to even that in some quarters, it is nowhere near the size of the resistance toward COVID vaccinations.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#602

Post by NicoJuicy » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

Give them one month to take the vaccine. Health care isn't available at cost when they get ill from COVID for those that didn't get the vaccine. Health care is here to prevent if possible and it's currently possible. The governement advices the vaccine. Make sure every minority receives the message clear ( eg. Belgium has a lot of hard to reach minorities concerning the language, the message should be clear for all)

It's your option to take the advice or not, but take your responsibility if you ignore it. Don't cry afterwards.

Distribute the vaccines ( the better ones) to countries that lack them according to population density and lack of vaccine availability asap.

Please, get this done already. Richer countries have their responsibilities too, this is an option that the population should agree with. Everyone can do what they want.

If some % of the people don't want the vaccine. Give them what they want instead of the current indecision. All other options will only fuel their anti-governement thinking. Don't force it on to them, it's their fault.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#603

Post by tablespoon » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

chippy wrote: post #449

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

Its worth remembering that division is due to the other side always . This is an absolute statement as division is literally caused by dividing between "sides". You get a divided country when the people within it divides each other into sides. Its never been the case when people have said "our side has caused the division". never. That is the irony you should be finding! If you do finally see this irony you might fin…

>> I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country....

>> How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back.

> Its worth remembering that division is due to the other side always.

That's an unhelpful muddying of the waters. If some clear minority is undermining a popular policy, especially if it's doing so for irrational reasons or out of spite, you can definitely point to that minority as the cause of the division.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#604

Post by jl6 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

I guess it’s easier to pass a law like this, than a law which puts the unvaccinated at the back of the queue when hospital beds run out.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#605

Post by Bantros » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

It's just I'm not gonna take it is all

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#606

Post by WickyNilliams » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

fileeditview wrote: post #138

fabian2k wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…

The argument always is that there are not enough beds for non-corona patients. More beds would certainly help. It is nonsense to vaccinate young and very healthy people, especially kids. Their risk from COVID is minimal to non-existent. Also the spread is not stopped by vaccinating. Vaccinated still spread the virus. If it is reduced is still unclear. There was a study in GB that showed the incidence numbers in vacci…

> There was a study in GB that showed the incidence numbers in vaccinated was just as high or higher than in unvaccinated

I would like to see the source for that if you have the link?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#607

Post by dav_Oz » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

I wonder as to how far the current crisis is used by 'machiavellian' power players to weaken civil liberties and constitutional rights as was the case with "9/11" to push something through like the "Patriot Act" with its wide ramifications for us all today.

I understand the allure just for this damn pandemic, this state of global health emergency, to force everyone to take their jabs already.

But even without the imagination of a science fiction writer thinking through every "subtle" implications long ahead of its time, it takes little to see the possible dawning - at the end of this tragic ride of a pandemic - of a less free and more restrictive biosecurity world. Once the shots are compulsory, how many boosters are to come? Is there an expiry date (like 6 months) for natural immunity? Can we say definitively we only need 3 shots? Not more like once or twice every year? For how long? And why not additionally for the flu and other seasonal respiratory infections, now that the mRNA platform has proven its efficacy, its scalibility, its tremendous customizability and the compulsory laws being in place.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#608

Post by nzk » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

lgreiv wrote: post #446

nzk wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growth isn't exponential forever, cases appear to be going down again in Germany already. Delta waves seem to be only about 8 weeks long (check data from different countries, or here: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/01/briefing/delta-peak-covid... ), so two extra weeks would help a lot. I agree that vaccines are part of the solution. I disagree that stripping citizens of their rights and insulting them on TV is part…

I’ll not take a stance on the correct number of free ICU beds as I do not feel qualified to judge these numbers without more insight on the intricacies of what would qualify fully operational beds, but regarding the stalling case numbers I feel confident enough (after looking at some raw numbers from the municipalities themselves [1]) to dismiss the apparent trend as a statistic artifact. PCR test units and hospital…

Yeah, it's possible. I tried to word it carefully. There seems to be a trend in Bavaria though, Saxony maybe, but it's too soon to tell. Those two were the first to be hit by the current wave, and some areas of Bavaria had the highest incidence for a decent while I believe, so that might be an indicator of having reached the peak at least in some parts of the country. But you are correct, it's absolutely not clear yet, and could be due to lack of testing capacity.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#609

Post by I-M-S » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

atsaloli wrote: post #442

I was born in Soviet Russia, where the party line was: there is no God, there is no Soul, there is no Truth, and truth is what we tell the people. My family came to America to get away from that savage society and to live in a free country, based on voluntary cooperation (free market) not force and violence and coercion. In communism, the group is all and the individual is nothing. I do not believe it is okay to viol…

How old were you when you left USSR?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#610

Post by pedopedopedo » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

Everyone praising this is going to face some serious retaliation in the near future.

You don't know what unholy hell is being unleashed.

We'll be dumping bodies out of 747s 30k feet over the ocean and they'll be washing up on Ocean Beach.

You all are making a serious fucking mistake.