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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#591

Post by seoulmetro »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

You're confusing majority of one statistic for majority of another statistic.

As far as I know, the majority didn't "vote" for mandatory vaccines, even if the majority have received vaccines.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#592

Post by swader999 »

paul7986 wrote: post #516
timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I just became fully vaccinated and each day since I am dealing with dizziness / lightheaded-ness spells. Everyone should take one for the team you say but do you know what the future holds for the team? You just trust emphatically what the early science says vs. waiting over time to see all of it's effects on a huge population? That and time is the true bellweather but we are forced guinea pigs to join the experiment…

Try ivermectin. It helps with vaccine injury too.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#593

Post by __blockcipher__ »

timdaub wrote: post #530
chippy wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its worth remembering that division is due to the other side always . This is an absolute statement as division is literally caused by dividing between "sides". You get a divided country when the people within it divides each other into sides. Its never been the case when people have said "our side has caused the division". never. That is the irony you should be finding! If you do finally see this irony you might fin…

And how exactly does this statement now help to address the situation?

Well it seems to follow pretty naturally that if you think that division is a problem, then being aware of how your attitude is the definition of division seems pretty important.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#594

Post by ivan_gammel »

worik wrote: post #388
timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

In a democracy nobody has absolute freedom and minorities do not enjoy protections of the rights to threaten others. If 30% of the people do not get vaccinated without valid reason, they violate the right of others to live and stay healthy. It is scientifically established fact that vaccination reduces health risks for the public, so vaccination mandate will be based on the same constitutional grounds as speed limits and other limitations of personal freedoms. Noteworthy is that it cannot be enforced for the people who just stay at home. Anti-vaxxers can lock themselves up for a few years and be free from vaccine if they want.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#595

Post by Diederich »

paul7986 wrote: post #516
timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I just became fully vaccinated and each day since I am dealing with dizziness / lightheaded-ness spells. Everyone should take one for the team you say but do you know what the future holds for the team? You just trust emphatically what the early science says vs. waiting over time to see all of it's effects on a huge population? That and time is the true bellweather but we are forced guinea pigs to join the experiment…

> I just became fully vaccinated and each day since I am dealing with dizziness / lightheaded-ness spells.

May I ask: how long have these apparent vaccination related symptoms been going on?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#596

Post by switch007 »

mattlondon wrote: post #437
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

For what it is worth, in the UK there were similar concerns. They set up "Nightingale Hospitals" (reference to Florence Nightingale) - basically convention centres were converted into field hospitals with ventilators. One in London had 4000 beds, and there were others elsewhere in the country. It took 9 days to build the London one (I was impressed!) After all that, the 4000 bed one in London treated 20 patients duri…

Those hospitals were a joke. Ask anybody who worked in the NHS and they would have told you no way in hell could they have found sufficient numbers of staff to actually run them. A publicity stunt. The country went crazy thinking people were dying in the street and we needed emergency hospitals/morgues

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#597

Post by pronik »

One thing I've been thinking about lately is the lasting change to the society. I would like to argue that the point of no return has passed a long time ago.

A sizeable chunk of people I talk with aren't going back to the office (and by extension to any kind of socialization) for the next couple of months. I understand and accept the sentiment, but I have to wonder why they would ever change their minds. Idealistically speaking, restrictions will be lifted in several months with the pandemic ending. But from an individual point of view there probably won't be a change at all: the virus itself stays by becoming endemic, so there is still a chance of infection; if you are vaccinated already, you are mostly protected just like you'd be after the pandemic -- in a way, we are even safer now than later because of general awareness, masks, distance, smaller crowds etc.

So what's the real difference in leaving home now as opposed to after the pandemic? What changes after the pandemic ends? Do we need to complete some kind of coping process? Do we need to accept the coronavirus as we accept the influenza? And what happens if a person can not do that, how many people will fail to cope? How do we help them out? Will we ever be able to?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#598

Post by xdennis »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #558
helge9210 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides, it's in everyone's best interest to get vaccinated. No. Some are OK with the risk. > this is a democracy If all the possible choices for the vote are supported by all the parties. If there are unacceptable choices, this is just a dictatorship of the majority.

What about compulsory seatbelts?

No one is forced to drive.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#599

Post by forgotmyoldname »

cbozeman wrote: post #536
forgotmyoldname wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last weekend I was at a Japanese history museum, and part of the exhibit was on 1600s-1800s medical technology. In the 1870s, Japan had vaccine passports and kept logs of unvaccinated people in order to track them down. It was deemed a huge step forward in developing the country. It’s interesting how some people today think mandatory vaccination is some massive, unprecedented destruction of freedom, when it’s histori…

Given Japan was a nation where a certain class could execute summarily anyone below them, for something as germaine as insulting them, and given what Japan did to Chinese civilians during World War II, you'll forgive me if I don't look to their 1870s ideals as inspiration for living in 2021.

Neither of those were happening in that era.

They’re also as irrelevant as bringing up European colonial horrors or ongoing American foreign intervention.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#600

Post by switch007 »

fsh wrote: post #120
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

This is such a bizarre take. If the ICUs are filling up, the solution should be to prevent people from getting sick, not to make the ICUs bigger. There are undoubtedly many problems in the German healthcare system, but the current surge is clearly due to the very large number of unvaccinated people.

> the solution should be to prevent people from getting sick, not to make the ICUs bigger.

Why not both?

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