The future looks grim with governments mandating health procedures on the population against their will
Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
321–330 of 1001 posts
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sweden did worse than the other Scandinavian countries that enacted stricter Covid restrictions, including lockdowns. Sweden had roughly 5-7x as many deaths per capita as its immediate neighbors of Norway and Finland. Germany had less deaths per capita as well: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
A lot of that can be attributed to a relatively huge early spike in deaths at nursing homes. Rightly, Sweden decided it was a bad idea to do go about business as usual at nursing homes. After this, their relative difference to other Scandinavian countries is much smaller.
And are those spikes in deaths at nursing homes not normal? Is that not how things always and usually work? Do people at nursing homes not die mostly in the winter and flu season, since forever? What are the statistics of excess mortality, is it higher than usual or not. Old people die. I read headlines in the papers "10 people have died since moving into a nursing home" That's what nursing homes are for. Everyone who moves into a nursing home dies...
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…
You forget one, the people that are dying have taken the risk for ther own and didn't want to get vaccinated. It's ok when they die, it's their decision that's gone wrong. Other people didn't got vaccinated and will never get covid anywhere. This is a decision that not the government has to make for the people.
those people still paid their taxes, health plan care and they should be treated. Stuff like this https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/sw/Intensivmedizin?s=... should be better investigated. I thought as German, something that we learned from our past was not "oben buckeln und nach unten treten" or something like "to crawl to the bigwigs and bully the underlings". Winter 2021, and we still don't have a plan, the schools still offline and the numbers are much worse now than winter 2020 when the numbers of unvaccinated were almost 90% of the population.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#324Understand, we're in the second epidemic and headed for the third. Plans made on the basis of the original virus may not be valid. "The enemy get a vote", as the military says. The original virus had a R0 rate of about 3, that is, in normal conditions, each infected person infects three others. That's about what the first generation of vaccines could control well enough that eventually the virus would die out. The de…
Delta's R0 isn't 8 [1] - 1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34369565/#:~:text=The%20Delt... .
From the link:
"The Delta variant is now replacing all other SARS-CoV-2 variants. We found a mean R0 of 5.08, which is much higher than the R0 of the ancestral strain of 2.79. Rapidly ramping up vaccine coverage rates while enhancing public health and social measures is now even more urgent and important."
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#32571% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…
> 71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. how does that match up with only 68.7% being fully vaccinated? me f.x. I am fully vaccinated and do not at all support mandatory vaccinations. I doubt I'm the only one. ( https://impfdashboard.de/ )
I'm not sure I buy that the 71% number is representative either but-- presumably they don't poll children, who have lower vaccination rates.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#32671% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…
> 71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. how does that match up with only 68.7% being fully vaccinated? me f.x. I am fully vaccinated and do not at all support mandatory vaccinations. I doubt I'm the only one. ( https://impfdashboard.de/ )
Your own link puts it at 79,3% of eligible adults with at least 2 shots, from this I would strongly presume that the poll was mostly asking adults and excluded (pre)-teens.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sweden did worse than the other Scandinavian countries that enacted stricter Covid restrictions, including lockdowns. Sweden had roughly 5-7x as many deaths per capita as its immediate neighbors of Norway and Finland. Germany had less deaths per capita as well: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
What is this obsession with limiting comparison of Sweden with "other scandanavian countries"? Is there some sort of special risk factor that only applies to scandanavia? Does COVID know what people look like? Why not compare stats of major metro areas with other similar metro areas in the world?
Yeah and avoiding looking at the statistics for mortality to see if it's actually higher than usual, which it isn't. I looked at the statistics of mortality for sweden, 2020 was high but well within standard deviation, and there were several more deadly years in recent history, 2008 and much more deadly years in the 1990s, without this ever even making headlines.
What stood out the most in the statistics, actually, was that 2019 had an unusually low death rates, if you add up 2020 and 2019 they basically even out to an average death rate.
I bet mortality has been abnormally low during 2021 so now we have a bunch of dry tinder again which will cause another "crisis" and lockdown as soon as weather is cold and viruses making the rounds again. Never ending cycle of panicking when old people die.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
In three months, the booster efficiency might start waning again, we don't know that yet. These vaccines so far aren't looking like they are the solution to the pandemic either, better vaccines or better treatment might be. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense to get vaccinated if you want to help with the situation, but I do find the way our politicians deflect blame and openly insult a not so small segment of the p…
Please source the 4,000 number properly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29422105 As I point out in my other comment, you cannot interpret that number in any to imply as though we ever actually had those 4,000 beds.
Fair enough, thanks for the info, I'll check it out. But let it be 2594 then, that is still too many given that we should have increased it by any means possible before starting to publically insult 20% of the population. I'm not assuming a deliberate reduction, I am assuming negligence.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#329Very thought-provoking this mistreatment of the unvaccinated. The process started with demonizing them to the point of being singled out and blamed for how the disease is impacting society. When the discrimination started, there were very few willing to speak for them. Particularly malicious was the expansion of the term anti-vaxxer typically used for a fringe minority which “rejects all vaccines for everyone” to all…
I think this is a ridiculous opinion to have.
I actually think unvaccinated people were treated way to well in Germany. They are a very loud minority in society and have managed to really hamper the progress against covid.
Compare this to Canada where the government implemented much bigger restrictions on unvaccinated people (no restaurants, no train travel, no air travel) and the overall vaccination rate is ~10% higher. And the current rise in cases is nowhere near Germany.
Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
#330In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.
None of this is true. The vaccination rate in Denmark is 77%, not 90% [1]. The number of hospital admissions and the death rate are lower than during the first and second waves [2, 3] despite a significantly larger infection rate [4]. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-fully-vaccin... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor... [3] https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavi…
Probably the difference between vaccination rate in adults, and vaccination rate over the whole population?