100 years of whatever this will be • Hacker News Board

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#621

Post by Thorentis » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

The missing key here in my opinion is subsidiarity. Decentralisation works up to a point, but many decentralised solutions assume that everybody is the entire system must reach a concensus e.g. Blockchain. And that concensus usually involves some kind of "majority rules". Which means that in practice, 49% of people might be left unhappy. That is not the sign of a healthy society.

What we need instead is the follow the principles of subsidiarity [1].

Local level markets, DeFi solutions, governance structures, communication platforms, etc that are capable of enforcing their own rules, but that are interoperable to some degree with other systems.

The Matrix project I think is a great example of this. Unfortunately, it looks like they might be making some bad decisions around global moderation, but in general the idea that local servers can exist with their own rules, but still send and receive content from other servers is great.

We don't want to end up in a future where Big Tech can automatically censor any video you upload, any message you send, or any call you make. This doesn't mean we need the Wild West, it means that you should be participating in a community where you all agree on the rules. And if you want to participate in somebody else's community, you need to follow their rules. This idea that some global all powerful entity can just banhammer somebody for something they said in a community that everybody in the community thought was fine, is totally unacceptable.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#622

Post by zepto » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #619

zepto wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry you are a racist. How does your racism cause you to equate welfare Queen with black woman? I’d have thought that was more connected to the media using it that way.

Reagan pretty much popularized the terms ("welfare queen", "strapping young bucks") with racist intent[1]: those were the images he wished to conjure-up in listener's minds, and not a creation of the media. Just as the word "thug" is currently used by certain personalities/networks today. 1. https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/10/innocent-mistak...

I didn’t say it was a creation of the Media. I said they use it that way. It’s good to trace it back to Reagan.

What is not so clear is why the person I was responding to thinks it’s their racism that causes them to think of those images, and not just that they have been exposed to Reagan’s imagery through the media.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#623

Post by DenseComet » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #377

sva_ wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://holo.host > HoloToken (HOT) is an ERC-20 token I'm not sure a hierarchy in which the Ethereum Foundation, who gave themselves the absolute majority of Ether currency, is at the top, is the answer to the struggles/issues postulated in the essay.

I'm pretty sure anything running on the mainnet these days will be 10x more expensive than a classic centralized option just with gas fees and is as such completely useless.

Yep there is so much overhead to making things decentralized. Take a look at filecoin sealing. Its a super cool system with a bunch of fun cryptography and math, but generating the proofs requires a lot of time and compute power and adds a whole bunch of restrictions to how you can upload data.

If you really, really, want to say your storage is decentralized, use it, but S3 is a 1000x simpler.

https://spec.filecoin.io/systems/filecoin_mining/sector/seal... https://docs.filecoin.io/mine/hardware-requirements/

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#624

Post by philosopher1234 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #410

moffkalast wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you keep complaining about the lack of water though a pipeline will eventually be built.

No, if you collect money to pay for it it will be built. Or if the inventors themselves want the water and build it for themselves.

You have never in your life been motivated to help someone else with needs you didnt have?

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#625

Post by archarios » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

sradu wrote: post #606

goodpoint wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People constantly forget that large multinationals like Amazon are bigger that many countries, are purely authoritarian structures and work as 100% centralized economies. > Central panning doesn't scale On the contrary, it scaled pretty well in China and in Soviet Russia, leading to the two cases of the fastest economical growth on the planet. The problem is not scalability. The problem is that dictatorships (both co…

You must not be from a former communist country. The system worked for two-three decades during the initial industrialization phase. When that phase ended growth was hard to find (the whole system was based around factories and moving villagers to cities). That's when the numbers started going down and the system started faking numbers to give the appearance that all is well and nobody could disagree with them. At a…

I wonder if the growth problems that SU came across was more due to external pressures than inherent systemic limitations of a planned economy

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#626

Post by bduerst » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

meheleventyone wrote: post #373

davidw wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's part of the point of the article. Those rules are not some kind of distributed system. They are centralized.

Although in reality enforcement can be selective and vary by jurisdiction so it’s also decentralised in implementation.

True, but it doesn't make sense to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

From what I've seen being argued about proponents of defi (or smart contracts) is they operate on the premise that the centralized authority is the bad actor.

While this is true in some cases, it's not all cases, and despite it's flaws there is still a need for centralized authorities to arbitrate.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#627

Post by samirillian » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

> I find myself linking to this article way too much lately, but here it is again: The Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman. You should read it. The summary is that in any system, if you don't have an explicit hierarchy, then you have an implicit one.

All hierarchies are structures but not all structures are hierarchies. I'm not sure Jo Freeman argues for explicit hierarchy.

CTRL-F the article.

Structure - 92 Hierarchy - 0

https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#628

Post by _moof » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

syndacks wrote: post #270

zackmorris wrote: post #218

I've been thinking a lot lately about first principles. For example, the Golden Rule is great, but the concept of reincarnation transcends it, making it self-evident. The Book of Genesis probably started "in a beginning", not "in the beginning". And so on. When I look around at the state of the world today, it just makes me so tired. Everyone's running around on autopilot and not questioning the basic assumptions. It…

You had me except for the reincarnation/another life bit. Bedsides scripture, is there any evidence of this in science? I'm asking genuinely here.

I read it as taking a spiritual route to arrive at something like original position, which you can certainly get to by more secular means. (Rawls did, after all.)

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#629

Post by archarios » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

pitaj wrote: post #283

goodpoint wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People constantly forget that large multinationals like Amazon are bigger that many countries, are purely authoritarian structures and work as 100% centralized economies. > Central panning doesn't scale On the contrary, it scaled pretty well in China and in Soviet Russia, leading to the two cases of the fastest economical growth on the planet. The problem is not scalability. The problem is that dictatorships (both co…

> large multinationals like Amazon I don't know about the internal workings of Amazon specifically, but many corporations are set up as hierarchical "business units" that each operate as separate companies within: selling their products and services within the company. There's still a market, not everything is determined centrally. > On the contrary, it scaled pretty well in China and in Soviet Russia, leading to the…

Sears mostly collapsed because they decided to make their internal departments independent competing companies. The departments acted more in their own interests rather than in the interests of the whole company...

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#630

Post by shebek » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

DenseComet wrote: post #613

fragmede wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Micropayments have been suggested since Internet was young, but now that's available on top of the right cryptocurrent (eg SOL). Whether that's actually a model people want (vs saying they want) remains to be seen, but Substack seems to be doing well enough for their writers. 3 cents from each of 100,000 likes on Twitter/Insta/tt starts to add up for those with a large enough following to make several of those a mont…

Micropayments are an interesting topic. I don't want to pay 5 cents per article I read, I'd much rather pay $10 a month for unlimited articles, even if I end up paying more than I would with the first scheme just because with the first one, I make a decision to spend money with every click. I know there are projects trying to streamline this, but it really should be as close to the UX of the latter as possible, pay a…

I though the point of personal computing was to make it easy to think, not to make it unnecessary?

If you think the firehose of self-referential click-bait needs to be made even more addictive, I'm really not sure what Web3 can offer.

OTOH, reintroducing the friction of having to decide whether the next click is worth your time and attention (i.e. money) is where it's at.