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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#281

Post by Tepix »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #257
kareemm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]: - Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots - Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the wh…

Your numbers are very similar to Ontario's, and in fact Canada in general as a whole. But what's strange is out the US doesn't seem to reflect this. There are states with fairly high vaccination rates where vaccinated people are ending up in the ICU at rates many times ours, and are only showing up as 2.5 or 3 times better protected than the unvaccinated for hospitalization. I don't know how to explain this other tha…

My guess is that obesity plays a bigger role than many people realize. Perhaps obese people who are vaccinated are still at a substantially elevated risk? This also explains why Africa is doing pretty well in terms of low casualties: Young people and fewer obese.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#282

Post by timdaub »

Animats wrote: post #200

Understand, we're in the second epidemic and headed for the third. Plans made on the basis of the original virus may not be valid. "The enemy get a vote", as the military says. The original virus had a R0 rate of about 3, that is, in normal conditions, each infected person infects three others. That's about what the first generation of vaccines could control well enough that eventually the virus would die out. The de…

Delta's R0 isn't 8 [1]

- 1: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34369565/#:~:text=The%20Delt....

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#283

Post by thomasahle »

kareemm wrote: post #96
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]: - Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots - Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the wh…

> What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths?

85.6% of hospitalized in Denmark are either unvaccinated or "half vaccinated". See https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/aa41b29149f24e20a40... graph 2.

This means that if the vaccination rate grew from 90% to 100% the hospitalized number would drop to very manageable levels.

Even with a 90% fully vaccinated population, the remaining 10% are still enough to fill up the hospitals.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#284

Post by uptownfunk »

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

Incredible statistic, would love to see the source on this

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#285

Post by arrrg »

bijant wrote: post #64
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

That’s wrong information.

Twice-vaccinated people will have to get a booster shot and there are discussions about a six month expiry date if you don’t get the booster shot.

What happens beyond that we do not know right now since can’t look into the future. We do not know how effective the booster will be in terms of long-term protection.

All of that is not surprising. A bit annoying but not surprising.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#286

Post by CountDrewku »

krater23 wrote: post #167
throwntoday wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you don't understand, the unvaccinated are the reason the vaccinated are getting the virus /s

Why you think this? People that are unvaccinated will have harder covid symptoms that are earlier found and in best case quarantined. With a cold maybee without the knowledge about covid they just stay in the bed for some days. Vaccinated people are more the ones with no symptoms and run everyday through the city and infect other people without knowing that they do it. So I think that what you say is just not correct…

The /s means they're being sarcastic.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#287

Post by nwellnhof »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #229
fabian2k wrote: post #99

71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the pla…

>71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. From the article: >Germany, much like Austria, has one of the lowest vaccination rates in western Europe, with 68.4% and 65.6% of eligible adults vaccinated respectively, according to the ECDC. More Germans support mandatory vaccinations than are actually vaccinated? Seems like it should be the opposite. There are m…

The 68.4% number is wrong or outdated or maybe relative to the whole population including minors. Currently, 79.3% of German adults are vaccinated. This is according to official numbers with actual numbers estimated to be up to 5 percentage points higher.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#288

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

but they have their scape goats now. the infections rise b/c of the unvaxinated.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#289

Post by est31 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #272
arrrg wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No country in the world has the capacity to take care of more than “a couple thousand” ICU patients (well, it’s more like a couple of ten thousand ICU patients for the best equipped and richest large countries in the world, like Germany). Simply because “a couple thousand” is all that’s needed during ordinary times. Yeah, there are issues with staffing and inadequate payment of the staff, sure, and those problems are…

>Simply because “a couple thousand” is all that’s needed during ordinary times. Yes but.. extraordinary times exist, if we were sane we would prepare for crises before they happen, because we always knew that it would hit us eventually, people have been warning about this for ages, this is not some black swan. More healthcare capacity would help, just like more supply chain capacity would help, or the ability to manu…

This is also about appreciation. The main bottleneck for increasing capacity is not machines, rooms or beds, those are available. It's hospital staff that's lacking. ICU beds are the most staff intensive beds in a hospital. It's a job that requires years of training, so you can't just scale it up. Also, the willingness to be a nurse has decreased during the last couple months. A lot of hospital staff has burned out during the first few waves and either reduced their contracts to part time, or quit entirely. The remaining staff has to work hard, until exhaustion and beyond, in order to fight for the patient's lives. Covid stations require proper hygiene which puts extra stress on the hospital staff. And they put in all of this work because some people couldn't be bothered to seek out vaccination, often even the patients themselves. This is the main difference to the first few waves where vaccination has not been available to everyone.
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