Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 1001 posts

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#101

Post by berkes »

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

10% of 5,821,297 is still 58,212 people who potentially get ill (and can die and can get into hospital).

I'm not sure where you get the 15% higher death rate: any sources?

In .nl we are seeing the same numbers (but on a 3x population of denmarks). Hospitals are so full now, they are rejecting e.g. cancer-patients and other "plannable Intensive Care patients". Over half of the patients on those ICs are vaccinated; ergo, from a ratio of 10/90% the patients are 55/45%; ergo: they work. Certainly not fully and certainly less than (I) expected.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#103

Post by xiphias2 »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #5

I’m confused. I thought vaccinated people can spread the virus. Why are they not locked down too?

Because it's cheaper to vaccinate people than to hospitalize unvaccinated, and hospitals are understaffed everywhere in the world.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#104

Post by berkes »

joshuamorton wrote: post #86
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

Are hospital admissions and mortality rates similar among vaccinated and nonvaccinated individuals?

No. Not at all. .dk is similar to .nl in this, and in .nl its 55/45 unvaccinated/vaccinated (on a 12/88 ratio of vaccinations).

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#105

Post by _Understated_ »

lillecarl wrote: post #37
TechBro8615 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, so a vaccine that does not stop transmission does not create selective pressure on the virus? Wouldn’t that be unusual from an evolutionary biology standpoint? Can we at least agree that if infected, as a vaccinated and asymptomatic carrier, there is a higher chance of transmission than if I were unvaccinated and symptomatic? This seems like common sense to me, but I recognize it goes against the Covid orthodoxy.…

The point is vaccinating everyone, just like we did with Smallpox. Which is essentially dead because of vaccination.

> The point is vaccinating everyone, just like we did with Smallpox. Which is essentially dead because of vaccination.

It has been shown time and again that the covid jag does not prevent infection/re-infection/transmission so your talk of eradication smacks of propaganda, not science.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#106

Post by rbanffy »

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

Is the death rate as high among the unvaccinated or is it just that the unvaccinated die 15% more frequently than before?

> I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

I’d blame both the unvaccinated and new variants that seem to be more lethal than before.

If it is the case that vaccinated are still passing the virus but not dying from it, then isolation of the unvaccinated saves their lives.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#107

Post by wiredearp »

lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

That's because two out of three that get hospitalized are unvaccinated, or that's at least the case in Odense.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#108

Post by gizmo »

fabian2k wrote: post #80
nzk wrote: post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…

The problem isn’t simple and certainly not a matter of just vaccinating. A big part of the problem is that govt was confident that two jabs in the summer would be sufficient because of two faulty assumptions: that immunity would last and that fully vaccinated people would not spread covid.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#109

Post by Auracle »

wjnc wrote: post #72
wsc981 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you are voted down. This is very much true for The Netherlands as well. Ever since the year 2000, possibly before, ICU beds have been scaled down. Diederik Grommers, one member of the Dutch Outbreak Management Team (OMG) states: "it doesn't matter if you're vaccinated or not; 60% of the beds are occupied by vaccinated people; the problems we will encounter in the coming weeks are caused by the fact t…

Counter argument: Medical personel is hard to find and expensive, as is IC infrastructure. Why would we've needed to keep spare IC capacity for decades only to find out we need it in case of a pandemic? The German argument could be re-constructed into an argument that any country will run into IC shortages regardless of the level of IC availability. In an exponential curve it's only three or four cycles (8-12 days?)…

You can’t throw a stone without hitting a nurse in the US, but I’m guessing they’re paid far better here as well just as doctors are.

I know Germany has a mixed system but it seems to me that socialized medicine keeping costs down slowly erodes care. The increase in costs in the US is also unsustainable. There might be a happy medium in there but it might be too early to tell.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#110

Post by muttantt »

shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

You are missing the point - the division IS their end goal.
Post reply on HN