Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#331

Post by Maursault » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

d1sxeyes wrote: post #265

throwntoday wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I understanding correctly that you believe because the two people attacking him were unarmed, he did not have the right to shoot them? You say you "accept" it was lawful, but it doesn't seem like you believe it should be. I wonder if two "unarmed" people were attacking you, would you just let them beat you to death? I can't understand this train of thought at all.

I think that's an overly reductive expression of my opinion, which is perhaps why you're struggling to follow. I think it is incredibly likely that if Rittenhouse did not have a gun, then the two people he killed would still be alive, and I find it unlikely that Rittenhouse would be dead today. You are correct that I don't believe that these specific circumstances that led to these deaths should be legal. I don't bel…

> My opinion is that he had a gun he shouldn't have had, was in a place he shouldn't have been, causing trouble he shouldn't have been involved in, and killed two people who shouldn't have died. As it turns out, none of that is illegal.

Well put, I disagree only with your last sentence, unless cynical. I think prosecution made a mistake going after intentional homicide charges. All resources and focus should have been on a successful felony gun conviction. Only then should the prosecutor turned to felony murder charges. Even with the jury's finding, the judge should have partially overturned the jury's finding, and found guilty on lesser but included charges to ensure at least a few years of incarceration.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#332

Post by Mountain_Skies » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #329

dragonwriter wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You omit the qualifications for that exemption No, I don't, because there aren't any that are relevant here. > which speak heavily toward good faith and minimal impact No, 230 has an additional immunity for good faith effort by a provider or user to restrict access to material “the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether…

Mountain_Skies' anecdote above certainly does not meet any form of "obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable", nor does (say) any of the objective reporting & fair discussion of the Kyle Rittenhouse incident, or other commonplace views normalized among fully half the population. Arbitrary culling of content which does not constitute "obscene, lewd, lascivious, filt…

The quote that got Facebook's independent fact checker's wrath: “Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.”

There might be some extra context here. When I searched for Ralph Waldo Emerson censor Facebook, older articles about James Woods and Donald Trump using a very different Emerson quote popped up. Tech companies censored those so it may have made them overly sensitive to anything involving Emerson, perhaps even using automated systems that are still running (the locket photo that was sanitized for our protection was posted earlier this week).

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#333

Post by muzz » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

jpindar wrote: post #292

muzz wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also being not an American, I'm puzzled as to how there is apparently no requirement to report self-defense killings to the police. I guess when they find dead bodies in the street, they just assume it was self defense?

Rittenhouse did turn himself in to the police. He was running towards them to do so, and when the Kenosha police wouldn't listen to him, he went to the police station in another nearby town.

Did he stop and talk to the police or keep going? How long after the shootings did the "police station in another nearby town" occur? Also, whom did the call after his first shooting-- the police or someone else?

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#334

Post by Mountain_Skies » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #263

Something that blew my mind. https://www.yahoo.com/news/kyle-rittenhouse-says-andrew-yang... Rittenhouse stayed out of the politics for the trial(very smart) and later he revealed that he was in the "Yang Gang" "I'm going to get a lot of hate for this but I was a pretty big Andrew Yang supporter before all this," He was far left and the left wing are who attacked him as white supremacist and all that. Just goes to sh…

He also supports BLM.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#335

Post by Dakizhu » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

d1sxeyes wrote: post #238

baryphonic wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had followed the case since the beginning. Having watched the videos, it was plainly obvious that in each case, Rittenhouse was acting in self-defense. (Intriguingly, many pro-Rittenhouse voices were arguing that he was guilty of the gun charge, though some were a bit more eagle-eyed and read the statute the way the judge ultimately did when he dismissed it.) The interesting thing about Rittenhouse is that even des…

Rittenhouse shot and killed 2 people, and shot and injured a third. Both of the men Rittenhouse killed were unarmed. I accept that every shot Rittenhouse fired fell within the framework of self-defence under the law. I also accept that he did have a legal right to be in Kenosha. Whether he had a legal right to be carrying the gun or not is a little more contentious. Although his possession of the gun was in line with…

To preface this, I think Kyle is a wannabe cop and I still think he shouldn't have been there. But the narrative that he's a white supremacist is probably false. The bar incident occurred because it was arranged by Lin Wood who he fired afterward. Also the FBI investigated him and found no connection to white supremacists iirc.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#336

Post by jpindar » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

muzz wrote: post #333

jpindar wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rittenhouse did turn himself in to the police. He was running towards them to do so, and when the Kenosha police wouldn't listen to him, he went to the police station in another nearby town.

Did he stop and talk to the police or keep going? How long after the shootings did the "police station in another nearby town" occur? Also, whom did the call after his first shooting-- the police or someone else?

He tried to talk to them and they told him to go away. (I know, that seems strange to me too.) He went to the other police station at 1:30 am, about 2 hours after the incident.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#337

Post by Dakizhu » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

d1sxeyes wrote: post #317

caeril wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (and he was white in case you're wondering) What's been most shocking about the media coverage over this matter, and the incessant, unfounded claims of "white supremacy" on the part of Mr. Rittenhouse, is that without actually saying it , the media has strongly implied to the average normie that Kyle killed black people. For one example, see https://twitter.com/sarahbeth345/status/1458593872557133825

Hm. I wouldn't say that the claims are unfounded. The 'Kenosha Guard' were formed in response to the George Floyd protests, so race can't be excluded here as a contributing factor in the formation of the militia. There is also evidence that the Boogaloo Boys formed at least part of the militia, who can be generously described as 'white-supremacist adjacent'. On the day of his 'not guilty' plea, he met with Proud Boys…

The meeting was arranged by Lin Wood at the time and he was promptly fired afterward. FYI the 'ok' sign is also used by lots of 'normal' conservatives and even non conservatives. The symbology was invented by 4chan first along with many other campaigns to turn widely used symbols (Pepe) into something associated with nazis. A lot of people who aren't affiliated in any way with nazis still continue to use it because of the original trolling motive and/or they don't know of the association.

Source: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/05/kyle-rittenhou...

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#338

Post by trhway » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

polartx wrote: post #307

trhway wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In fact, he demonstrated better gun safety Ah! so that is what responsible gun owner's gun safety looks like - 2 dead 1 wounded just because that stupid POS wanted to get off playing with a gun feeling all powerful. He didn't even bother to check on his victims and render first help (his skills he was so boasting about to journalists just 15 minutes before he killed his first victim), nor attempted to call for help…

>Ah! so that is what responsible gun owner's gun safety looks like - 2 dead 1 wounded I know you’re being sarcastic, but *yes*, that is responsible gun safety in a scenario where deadly force is required (which is why he was acquitted). Kyle exercised an incredible measure of discipline in his restraint—not shooting wildly into a mob that was overtaking him, only firing on those who were attacking him. Show me a poli…

>Kyle exercised an incredible measure of discipline in his restraint—not shooting wildly into a mob that was overtaking him, only firing on those who were attacking him.

He was an active shooter, and thus a threat to anybody around, and the people tried to defend themselves from that threat. Why those people got denied the right of self-defense and treated as attackers instead? I think it is a total miscarriage of justice that an active shooter successfully claimed self-defense. Not shooting wildly into a mob is really a pretty low, a new low i'd say, bar of responsible gun safety. You seeing laudable restraint and discipline in that is one of the best illustrations of the gun problem in the society.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#339

Post by d1sxeyes » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:32 PM UTC

Dakizhu wrote: post #337

d1sxeyes wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. I wouldn't say that the claims are unfounded. The 'Kenosha Guard' were formed in response to the George Floyd protests, so race can't be excluded here as a contributing factor in the formation of the militia. There is also evidence that the Boogaloo Boys formed at least part of the militia, who can be generously described as 'white-supremacist adjacent'. On the day of his 'not guilty' plea, he met with Proud Boys…

The meeting was arranged by Lin Wood at the time and he was promptly fired afterward. FYI the 'ok' sign is also used by lots of 'normal' conservatives and even non conservatives. The symbology was invented by 4chan first along with many other campaigns to turn widely used symbols (Pepe) into something associated with nazis. A lot of people who aren't affiliated in any way with nazis still continue to use it because o…

You might be right. I personally think he knew exactly what he was doing.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#340

Post by hajile » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

lbayes wrote: post #280

stjohnswarts wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A caliber doesn't make an "assault rifle". I can buy a hunting rifle in those calibers as well. In the USA there is no -legal- definition of an assault rifle, it is a made up term to scare people. A semi auto shot gun, hunting rifle, and pistol are all easily within 90% as dangerous as an "assault rifle". Do those get banned as well? I think that's why people say it's ludicrous to say "we just want to ban assault rif…

As a veteran of the US Marine Corps, I want to clarify this a bit for people. Yes, caliber does not make an Assault Rifle. No, it's not a, "made up term." Shotguns, hunting rifles and pistols are optimized for specific activities and generally become less effective as the circumstances diverge from that optimized range or shooting position. This makes them less ideal for killing humans everywhere we are found. Assaul…

This isn't a compelling argument. Those "hunting rifles" are the designs that killed millions from 1910-1950 (probably more than any small arm before or after).

In the US, there are something like 3-400 rifle shootings compared to 40-50,000 pistol shootings. When you look up mass shootings, you'll see pistols used all the time because 20-30 rounds in a tiny pistol are about as lethal as 20-30 rounds in a rifle at close range against unarmored targets while being TONS more maneuverable.

Tavor x95 is 26.4" with a 15.5" barrel. The M1 carbine (already cut down from the M16) is 7.5" longer despite having a shorter 14.5" barrel and although the weight is technically the same, the Tavor seems 2-3x lighter because the weight is right next to the body rather than a foot away.

Tavor x95 Carbine (22.5" long) is almost a foot shorter and 3/4 lb lighter than the M4 carbine. The M4 CQRB blinds the shooter in dark rooms and loses tons of stopping power with the 10" barrel, but is still a quarter-pound heavier and 3.5" longer. Those inches have a huge impact on time to target which is critical indoors.

Despite this, countries like Canada which ban the "assault rifles" like the AR-15 still allow the Tavor. It's not about the style of rifle.

I'd also put forward that if efficiency were the goal, 6.5 Grendel would be used instead of 5.56 as it has almost 2x the momentum, 20% more kinetic energy, and 4x lower ballistic coefficient while only increasing weight 10-15% (still half the weight of 7.62).

The US has tried to move away from the AR-15 platform numerous times (and a ton of special forces who have the option already have). Each time, they run into the issue where the training costs (hundreds of hours for millions of people), rifle costs, and cost to replace billions of rounds of ammo are just too high despite the efficiency increases.

AR isn't the best. It's just the most pragmatic at the moment.