As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…
That system is called feudalism! Just the lords don’t even have to take care of security anymore - peasants also pay for that.
Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
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Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
#62Obviously I support these kind of movements - the housing crisis is no joke. But every time I see an article about multifamily homes, I think: ok, but we really need is are hundreds of tall high rises with 500+ units, like in New York or Boston, each of which uses land much more efficiently than LA (2x more residents per square mile).
Seems to me you need to watch the NotJustBikes overview of the Missing Middle problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOdQsZa15o Super dense cities are efficient in some ways, but they have tons of other problems and they externalize tons of costs. What we're missing in the U.S. is human-scale density, especially in the form of cohousing arrangements. Tall high-rises are not actually efficient. You know how much ene…
Most folks would prefer the “missing middle” if ever given a chance to experience it.
Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
#63Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. If they upzone my single family home lot I will make out like a bandit. Developers will be all over this neighborhood, building townhouses galore. The last townhouse to sell in my neighborhood went for 2.1MM+. Upzoning does not magi…
> If they upzone my single family home lot I will make out like a bandit. Only if they only upzone your neighborhood, because if they upzone all of them then developers can buy any of them at existing prices instead of having to all bid on an artificially scarce subset. And in the first case the money comes at the cost of housing prices for all the other neighborhoods they didn't upzone, who all fight against upzonin…
And yet some neighborhoods are more desirable than others. Is this not already obvious from the state of the market today? Developers go where the most money can be made—the neighborhoods which are already valuable.
> Where does the money to sell "below market value" come from?
Tax breaks, duh. You put money back in developers pockets. By the way, you don't need to separate the projects. You combine them. You make luxury units possible with a mandate that a percentage of the building be affordable. New York already does this. Why is this so hard to understand?
Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
That system is called feudalism! Just the lords don’t even have to take care of security anymore - peasants also pay for that.
> system is called feudalism Peasants didn't vote for their lords. Somehow California's poor and renters have been convinced that building less housing is in their interests. (For example, see [1].) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29419007
A sufficient number of poor voters (the young likely) think they will hit the lottery and don't want the system closed to them.
By the time you realize the racket, the next generation comes along to be sold the big lie.
Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
#66As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…
It's called a cartel to artificially inflate housing for the benefit of existing owners.
Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
There isn’t a housing crisis, there is a jobs location crisis. Apartments are terrible, there is plenty of space out there for people to have their own and not be crammed in like sardines. Cities though have the problem of allowing much more space for jobs than they have for housing. You don’t want high density housing in your city? Fine, cap your employer zoning. It’s a big country out there and people need to decen…
There is huge demand for people to live in dense walkable areas that can't be met because of restrictive zoning. You may not want to live like that, but plenty of people do. We should allow them.
I suspect that number is a lot lower than is claimed. It's only a very loud set of vocal urbanist activitsts who clamor for these changes and create the illusion of that demand. The reality is most people grow out of wanting to live in dense areas and walkability is very overrated. In fact walk scores basically don't matter when people actually shop for a house compared to other factors (price, size, location, schools, etc). And as people age and want to establish a family, the urban life quickly loses its attractiveness.
The real question is why should any neighborhood have to 'allow' anyone who wants to live there to do so? Am I entitled to living beachfront in Maui just because I want to? Should they have to change their zoning to permit that? I feel like incumbent residents have a right to maintain their neighborhood character, density, and quality of life. Those things get eroded when you have an influx of new residents and different density - you end up with streets, parks, and other amenities that no longer work the way they're supposed to. What I see happening is that a city will build itself over time into something very attractive, and newcomers want a piece of that, so they demand zoning changes at the cost of the incumbents who made that place attractive in the first place.
Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not just landlords, but everyday home owners too. People who got a $X00k mortgage on a house by-and-large are not going to actively support policies which may reduce the asset backing that loan. There would absolutely be long-term benefits to lowering housing costs in parts of the country, but some people are going to have to feel the short-term pain to make that happen.
> which may reduce the asset backing that loan. IMO its worse than that.. no asset has been "reduced" yet the tempers and decision making get worse and worse.. This is a fundementally divisive issue that brings out the worst in people. Community is nowhere to be seen when it comes to private property and the dollars that come with it. It is a bitter end-game of an explosive and wealthy 100 years of growth in this par…
As the size of the loans go up, the stakes go up.
Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
#69Montréaler here; I live in a neighbourhood which is uniquely composed of plexes - 3 to 8 units per "plex", with the typical number being 3, thus the term "triplex". Honestly, it's the ideal density IMHO. I get the convenience factors of urban density, but without (most) of the downsides of a high-rise condominium building.
Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seconded. I lived in JP for several years and it was easily my favorite of the Boston neighborhoods to live in. Absolutely gorgeous. I lived in a 6 bed unit on the top level of a 3-story duplex that had 4 people living on the ground floor. It was a massive house that allowed for ten non-related people to live together on a street filled with similar houses, lined with massive oak trees and a five minute walk from a l…
It's for more mature and professional people than Allston, but there is a growing group of Northeastern students starting to populate things. I obviously can't prove this, but I believe because everything is so beautiful, people instinctively treat the location better. Whereas Allston is a party area and everything is grimy, so no one cares and joins into the debauchery and littering.
Also, for those not from the area, JP is indeed a "Boston neighborhood" but it's on the outskirts around parkland, the Arnold Arboretum, etc. and is about a 30 minute public transit ride [edit: on the Orange line not Green line]. So don't imagine this is in Boston in the way many might imagine. It probably has more in common with close in suburbs like Arlington than downtown.