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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#21

Post by disneygibson »

Scary stuff. I think all of the authoritarian actions over the last two years can be traced to a single event: the fall of the Soviet Union. Without an enemy to compare itself against, the Western world has forgotten the value of freedom.

If East Germany had implemented this forty years ago to fight X disease, it would have been painted as evil, something we don’t do in the free West.

Edit: flagged in 8 minutes. I guess this website isn’t the place for intelligent debate and discussion anymore. That’s disappointing.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#22

Post by musicale »

yladiz wrote: post #20
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Is it worse than last winter?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#23

Post by disneygibson »

yladiz wrote: post #20
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Increase hospital staff? Encourage social distancing? I don’t know, anything other than creating second class citizens in a country with a horrible history of it?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#24

Post by shmel »

musicale wrote: post #17

What are the major root causes for the surge in Germany? Low humidity/temperature? New variants? Something else? IIRC last winter in the US at least, health officials and the media were quick to blame irresponsible citizens and social gatherings – but the major root cause seemed to be a new, more transmissible (delta) variant.

Delta emerged in late spring 2021 though. You must be thinking about Alpha. However, it became dominant in the US only in late March 2021 according to Wikipedia[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Alpha_variant#Sprea...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#25

Post by yladiz »

disneygibson wrote: post #23
yladiz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Increase hospital staff? Encourage social distancing? I don’t know, anything other than creating second class citizens in a country with a horrible history of it?

Increasing staff won't add more beds to already full hospitals, though. And social distancing has been encouraged for a while, even for the vaccinated, and it hasn't seemed to help.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#26

Post by tinus_hn »

yladiz wrote: post #20
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Imagine a world in which the vaccine does not exist. What would you do then?

That is the alternative.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#27

Post by musicale »

yladiz wrote: post #20
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Does managing indoor humidity help? It seems to with other respiratory viruses.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#28

Post by yladiz »

tinus_hn wrote: post #26
yladiz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Imagine a world in which the vaccine does not exist. What would you do then? That is the alternative.

We don't live in a world without the vaccine, so I don't see the argument.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#29

Post by Arnt »

musicale wrote: post #22
yladiz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Is it worse than last winter?

Quite likely, yes. And no.

In the part of Germany where I live, 7-day incidence among the unvaccinated is 1726, which is much worse than last winter, and it's 112 among the vaccinated. Hospitalisation tells a similar story: The unvaccinated are suffering.

If that 1726 would rise as it did last winter, a lot of unvaccinated fools would die. A hundred thousand dead in three months, perhaps.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#30

Post by yoghurt »

disneygibson wrote: post #23
yladiz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Increase hospital staff? Encourage social distancing? I don’t know, anything other than creating second class citizens in a country with a horrible history of it?

You can't simply increase hospital staff - these are highly trained people. That's an investment that takes years to pay off. Encouraging social distancing doesn't work, people are tired of it and many either didn't care in the first place or don't care now that they are fully vaccinated.

Many western countries messed up big time by not investing enough into their health care systems or into properly educating their population. So now they're out of options.

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