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Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

bbc.com

211–220 of 442 posts

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#211
post #2

> Facebook said it would "still remove content that celebrates the death of the individuals killed in Kenosha". But "we will no longer remove content containing praise or support of Rittenhouse", a spokesperson said. To be clear, for a year, Facebook banned content that would have been consistent with what an impartial jury ultimately found about the case. Which would have corrected a misleading media narrative about…

I am not American and I didn’t follow these events but sorry for me after watching that video it’s still complicated: the self-defense seems justified, but the initial issue of protecting property with guns is not: material possession and private property is not on the same level as human life. I understand a law allows it in that state hence the jury logical decision, but that doesn’t make it right, just legal. Had…

That’s what separates America from many places. While you say to the property owner, “property is not worth a human life”. We say to the burglar/arsonist, “is property worth [your] human life?”

Also assault rifle isn’t a thing. The term is a made up classification of a weapon.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#212
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you have a young person being driven to a counter-protest by a parent This is where I stopped reading, because you're incorrect about basic facts of the case: https://news.yahoo.com/kyle-rittenhouses-mother-did-not-1838...

OK, as usual, someone picks up on one of the least important bits to intimate that the whole point must be wrong. Perhaps if you'd read past that you might have been able to address the theme rather than one of the less important parts. OK great, the mother wasn't involved, TIL. But the rest stands, there is so much wrong with the whole picture leading up to the (inevitable) tragedy.

You were incorrect about the thing which was the thesis of your comment! Not just incorrect but reality was in the exact opposite state as your comment portrayed it!

When a person manages to be wrong so efficiently, why on Earth should they feel entitled to partial credit for supporting arguments to a factually incorrect main idea?

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#213
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn’t pull the trigger and kill anyone. He’s a chaotic good, sure. Rittenhouse is lawful evil. That’s all.

I wouldn't refer to someone charged with a DUI, or illegally conceal-carrying a pistol, as being "chaotic good".

(He's a chaotic) (good, sure)

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#214
post #135
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Protest" is an incomplete characterization. The night he was there was the second night of wanton destruction. It was something between a riot and a protest. I have a hard time grasping the racial justice achieved by destroying property owned by people of color.

Even so, J Random Citizen getting tooled up and travelling to do something about it... it's very alien. That's a law enforcement role in most of the rest of the western world.

Agreed.

The problem is that when the government is derelict in it's duty (or, if critical mass of people believe so), this is the expected outcome. If people lose faith in the government to protect them, they're not going to roll over and die, they'll take whatever measures they deem fit to defend themselves and their property.

Law Enforcement exists for a reason. Maintenance of a degree of order keeps the populace happy while professionalism and codification of enforcement moderates the response (at least in the general case). Ideally, it's the "win-win" scenario where the perpetrators get to be treated well enough, while the populace is confident that violations of their safety and rights will be addressed.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#215
post #2

> Facebook said it would "still remove content that celebrates the death of the individuals killed in Kenosha". But "we will no longer remove content containing praise or support of Rittenhouse", a spokesperson said. To be clear, for a year, Facebook banned content that would have been consistent with what an impartial jury ultimately found about the case. Which would have corrected a misleading media narrative about…

I had followed the case since the beginning. Having watched the videos, it was plainly obvious that in each case, Rittenhouse was acting in self-defense. (Intriguingly, many pro-Rittenhouse voices were arguing that he was guilty of the gun charge, though some were a bit more eagle-eyed and read the statute the way the judge ultimately did when he dismissed it.) The interesting thing about Rittenhouse is that even des…

This is an interesting conclusion, because as I understand it this is only really true in some states. Wisconsin's self defense law is more permissive than many, and so Rittenhouse probably couldn't have used the same defense as easily in many states.

In other words, it's not "plainly obvious", and this comes down to the context beyond the moments before he shot people. Wisconsin law says you can ignore that context, and that self defense is self defense even if you create the situation that requires deadly force or are the aggressor.

Wisconsin law has exceptions to this, that allowed Rittenhouse to use self defense despite having himself escalated.

This is a bad thing for a few reasons (two people who both shoot each other can legitimately claim self defense, taken not much further and Ahmaud Arbery's killers could claim self defense after he reached for their gun to defend himself), and anything but "obvious".

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#216
post #181
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really a healthy democracy if the flows of information are controlled from the top down? If I provide you with a tuned set of information in which everything says what I cant, I can get you to believe whatever I want. This is just changing the source of said influence, not removing it.

> controlled from the top down? but the facebook/social media isn't "controlled from the top down" - it's people deliberately choosing to _only_ consume them (thus giving those media companies defacto control over people's tuned set of information sources). I'm saying that most people don't care enough to look for separate sources and do their own critical thinking.

I'm not sure if we're talking past each other here. Going to clarify my opinion on this a bit.

- Facebook is generally considered in colloquial terms, a "platform".

- Expectations by the users are thus that Facebook (the entity) does not dictate opinion, but instead provides an avenue for hosting and discovery of individual opinion.

- Thus, to the userbase, Facebook is not a Single source, but is instead a aggregation of multiple sources of "information" (or opinion; Scare quotes were intentional)

- One-sided enforcement of opinions on topics breaks the above assumption, converting it from "platform", to "publisher".

- This represents far more centralization of information control than the previous "platform" state. I think "centralization" captures my intention here more than the previous "top down" descriptor.

One of the assumptions of a free democracy is that people, as individuals, are permitted to discover their own opinion from available information. It's imperfect, but it's pretty important. If we severely restrict the pool of available information to just the slice amenable to whoever is in power, that's in effect the same as forcing their opinion. After all, you can't form the opposing opinion on something if everything you can find supports it.

Addendum:

On the gotcha of "Facebook's right to free speech". I'm of the opinion that this must be taken in light of scale and the subsequent threats to the individual right to free speech. Here, I declare (unilaterally, agreement may vary) that the individual right to free speech should be held above that of the corporate right, especially when scale is considered. I very much consider the largest digital spaces the closest analogue to the modern public square (some would disagree here) due to their scale and ubiquity.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't refer to someone charged with a DUI, or illegally conceal-carrying a pistol, as being "chaotic good".

(He's a chaotic) (good, sure)

What? "Chaotic good" and "lawful evil" are common terms. Why are you trying to split up the grandparent post's wording in a way they very obviously didn't intend?

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#218

Might be downvoted but there was a fact checker website that denied at the time President Trump’s claim that Kyle had acted in self defense. This was a year ago and I saw it for myself as still being up a few weeks ago. I am not an American and I really see both sides here. The jury system worked as per the law defined in the US (and I am not a pro 2A person ) but I also agree that most likely increase vigilantism wh…

> I also agree that most likely increase vigilantism which will be good for no one.

If the alternative to vigilantism is mob rule I'll choose vigilantism. The real issue here is that this should not be an issue for those living in a western-style representational republic or democracy to deal with, this being the task of the police.

If the monopoly on violence - i.e. the police - is not used to keep the violent at bay others will have to take up that task or the violent will rule - there are plenty of examples in the world where this has been and /or still is the case. That those "others" can end up resembling those they were formed to keep in check is an unfortunate aspect of that type of society and one of the reasons why the monopoly on violence was created. The solution to this conundrum is therefore to refrain from unilateral pacification when confronted with violent opponents. It also means that those politicians who acted upon and/or instigated the "de-fund the police" sloganeering have a lot to answer for, this being as stupid as de-funding the fire brigade when the city just caught fire (which it, incidentally, did in a number of cases).

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with that. But nobody in their right mind feels that defending a bunch of cars is worth human lives.

It’s not a “bunch of cars.” It’s the livelihoods of a couple of immigrants who did nothing to deserve having their business destroyed. It’s not just some buildings. It’s people’s community. Their businesses, their places of recreation, their community gathering places. That built environment was the labor of many people who left more to their kids than they started with. Property is the difference between Bangladesh…

Shooting people is also profoundly anti social and damaging to the people shot, but you don't seem to criticize Kyle much.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'd rather he stayed at home, rather than to play at police officer as a trigger happy youth.

The police officers had been standing down for two days! I don’t know what things are like in the Netherlands. But in Bangladesh, we still use guns to protect ourselves from people like the ones Rittenhouse killed. The only difference is that we technically have “gun control” so only the affluent people who can afford a guard to carry their gun for them can protect themselves.

Yes, and in doing so the police managed not to kill anyone. It's a testament to their restraint. Vigilantism is illegal and for good reason, I'm surprised to see you advocating so strongly for it.
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