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Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

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Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#51
post #36
post #2

> Facebook said it would "still remove content that celebrates the death of the individuals killed in Kenosha". But "we will no longer remove content containing praise or support of Rittenhouse", a spokesperson said. To be clear, for a year, Facebook banned content that would have been consistent with what an impartial jury ultimately found about the case. Which would have corrected a misleading media narrative about…

This case is so weird from a european pov. Rittenhouse would be certainly convicted of murder in countries like germany. The self-defense argument would get you some laughs at the trial.

The German definition of self-defense (“Notwehr”) sounds quite comprehensive to me:

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__32.html

What makes you think the case would’ve been adjudicated differently in Germany?

Edit: to be clear, certainly bringing a gun to a protest at all is illegal in Germany, so he could presumably be prosecuted for that, but it's not at all clear why he'd have been guilty of murder.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#52
post #36
post #2

> Facebook said it would "still remove content that celebrates the death of the individuals killed in Kenosha". But "we will no longer remove content containing praise or support of Rittenhouse", a spokesperson said. To be clear, for a year, Facebook banned content that would have been consistent with what an impartial jury ultimately found about the case. Which would have corrected a misleading media narrative about…

This case is so weird from a european pov. Rittenhouse would be certainly convicted of murder in countries like germany. The self-defense argument would get you some laughs at the trial.

Would anyone laugh at anyone attacking someone with a semi automatic gun with a skateboard?

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#53
post #2

> Facebook said it would "still remove content that celebrates the death of the individuals killed in Kenosha". But "we will no longer remove content containing praise or support of Rittenhouse", a spokesperson said. To be clear, for a year, Facebook banned content that would have been consistent with what an impartial jury ultimately found about the case. Which would have corrected a misleading media narrative about…

Juries have been wrong before, and many times at that. Personally I am sick and tired of the way this character is now put forward as some kind of saint, in my book he's a multiple murderer and there isn't anything that will change that. There is such a thing as intent and I don't buy for one second the self defense angle, that's akin to me tooling up with a bunch of weapons, walking into a bar fight and then shootin…

> Personally I am sick and tired of the way this character is now put forward as some kind of saint, in my book he's a multiple murderer and there isn't anything that will change that.

If you refuse to accept any concept of self defense then of course your going to convict him without looking at the evidence. By your standard it’s impossible for someone to defend themself with lethal force as the use of that force would be automatic guilt.

> There is such a thing as intent and I don't buy for one second the self defense angle, that's akin to me tooling up with a bunch of weapons, walking into a bar fight and then shooting people that come after me and claiming self defense.

Walking around your neighborhood is not walking into a bar fight.

Furthermore anyone that charges at someone open carrying a rifle clearly demonstrates intent to kill. The right to defend oneself does not come from the laws of man, that’s an innate right.

> Of course the violent right now have their poster boy and a fantastic fig leaf to engage in some more of this, beware of sowing wind, you'll end up reaping storm.

What a sad interpretation. A boy shot three men that tried to kill him. Interestingly, all of them turned out to also be convicted felons who likely were not out for any peaceful reason. One of them even had an illegal hand gun that he admits he pointed inches from the boys face before the boy shot him. It’s a great verdict because it shows the jury wasn’t swayed by the massive amount of misinformation about the circumstance.

> There is a reason more civilized countries have decided that the state should have the monopoly on violence. This isn't 100% ideal either but at least it stops this kind of excess.

The events leading up to the Rittenhouse shooting were explicitly caused by the State giving up their monopoly on violence. They refused to enforce the law and let a bunch of rioters burn down half the city. They demonstrated that they will not protect your property or even your life.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#54
post #2

> Facebook said it would "still remove content that celebrates the death of the individuals killed in Kenosha". But "we will no longer remove content containing praise or support of Rittenhouse", a spokesperson said. To be clear, for a year, Facebook banned content that would have been consistent with what an impartial jury ultimately found about the case. Which would have corrected a misleading media narrative about…

Juries have been wrong before, and many times at that. Personally I am sick and tired of the way this character is now put forward as some kind of saint, in my book he's a multiple murderer and there isn't anything that will change that. There is such a thing as intent and I don't buy for one second the self defense angle, that's akin to me tooling up with a bunch of weapons, walking into a bar fight and then shootin…

> There is a reason more civilized countries have decided that the state should have the monopoly on violence

There are only two kinds of individuals that argue someone shouldn't have the right to self defense or the right to keep and bear arms: A) someone naive to history and the purpose of that rifle on the labourer's cottage wall or B) someone attempting to argue in bad faith as they wish to disarm them to do evil to.

It's clear here based on your shown bias, wanting to paint certain political opponents as "violent", but then ignore the other side of the spectrum that caused this situation to develop, that was literally burning the town down, we can determine that you fall into group B here. Some of us watched our family trees get erased because individuals like yourself feel that only the authoritarians should have access to firearms throughout history, and some of us are not OK with that behavior.

Not happening, but you can try to come and take it.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#55

I hadn’t heard of this policy. It makes sense to me how people were so uninformed about what happened that night if Facebook was banning videos supporting Kyle and most of the media wasn’t being impartial. Anyone who spent time watching the videos wouldn’t be surprised by the verdict.

Considering Kyle killed people, at a very contentious and politically sensitive time, its understandable that the story was banned.

I've heard some very bad hot takes that basically amount to "he should have killed those people". Advocating for killing people is way less controversial than whatever "nuance" people want to assign to the case regarding legal standing of guns and various self defense laws.

Its not crazy to imagine someone thinking to just ban that whole discourse from a platform, even if takes some "genuine" and not-murderous conversations with it - simply to avoid people advocating death.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow I watched 1 or 2 videos on twitter right at the time, and got a good sense of what happened, that ended up being consistent with the jury ruling. These weren't even political posts, just some OSINT people I follow. I was not aware of any "misleading media narrative," since I don't consume any mainstream media outside of occasional twitter posts. Once the trial started I was actually very surprised how many pe…

Having a strong opinion based on zero knowledge is like American politics 101.

I remember a professor with a book he was going to publish in the 1950s and the dock worker who was doing immigration saw it and said “Nobody is gonna read that”. He thought it was very funny that all Americans have an opinion on everything. People also did read it.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#57
post #2

> Facebook said it would "still remove content that celebrates the death of the individuals killed in Kenosha". But "we will no longer remove content containing praise or support of Rittenhouse", a spokesperson said. To be clear, for a year, Facebook banned content that would have been consistent with what an impartial jury ultimately found about the case. Which would have corrected a misleading media narrative about…

It’s unsurprising it was found to be self-defense.

But he’s still a dipshit for LARPing GI Joe.

Would other people have pointed guns at him if he stayed home?

Not violated laws transporting weapons across state lines without an immediate threat to his life?

Escalating a situation like he did should have seen him shot like an animal by police.

Would have happened too if he was brown or mentally ill.

America is a moral relativist wasteland.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#58
Orgs like Facebook who use "Independent Fact Checkers" need to reveal their sources otherwise there's no reason to believe the "Independent Fact Checkers" aren't Facebook employees making arbitrary or even ideological rulings on what is true and what is false.

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#59
post #36
post #2

> Facebook said it would "still remove content that celebrates the death of the individuals killed in Kenosha". But "we will no longer remove content containing praise or support of Rittenhouse", a spokesperson said. To be clear, for a year, Facebook banned content that would have been consistent with what an impartial jury ultimately found about the case. Which would have corrected a misleading media narrative about…

This case is so weird from a european pov. Rittenhouse would be certainly convicted of murder in countries like germany. The self-defense argument would get you some laughs at the trial.

Well the laws are different here. The jury decided what they thought given the laws of the state, not what they wanted to rule. That's the way jury trials work. It's not a morality trial, it's a "did he break the law" trial

Re: Facebook reverses Kyle Rittenhouse policy

#60

The whole self-appointed "fact checker empowered to cancel" movement has to stop. Far too much fair disagreement, and objective truths, have been maliciously "cancelled" for not adhering to a given narrative on public forums. I get that "freedom of the press" does not include freedom to use someone else's press, and the owner has the absolute right to decide who may use his press. That said, we have a legal different…

> by culling §230-protected content in a clearly biased manner Facebook etc is establishing themselves as "publisher" culpable for libelous & criminal content. No, they aren't. True, if it were not online, Facebook's involvement with selection of which provided content to promote might make them a publisher (it's kind of hard, because both bookstores and other distributors and publishers, offline, actively select con…

You omit the qualifications for that exemption, which speak heavily toward good faith and minimal impact, which FB/T/etc are going way beyond and will likely have to defend in court with difficulty.
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