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Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

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Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#11

Post by jgrahamc »

patio11 wrote: post #4

Here's a potentially scary thought for you: in ~2000, this would have been proof positive of state involvement. In 2011, this is barely newsworthy. In 2021, this will be about as within the reach of the average middle class teenager as a three ounce device capable of instantaneous worldwide encrypted communication. This is not going to be a happy adjustment for people who have to maintain physical security of e.g. a…

I wrote this over a year ago: http://blog.jgc.org/2010/08/within-diy-reach-flying-killer-r...

I think 2021 is a long way off for this, I'd imagine within five years it's on ThinkGeek.

Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#12

Post by arethuza »

Natsu wrote: post #9
patio11 wrote: post #4

Here's a potentially scary thought for you: in ~2000, this would have been proof positive of state involvement. In 2011, this is barely newsworthy. In 2021, this will be about as within the reach of the average middle class teenager as a three ounce device capable of instantaneous worldwide encrypted communication. This is not going to be a happy adjustment for people who have to maintain physical security of e.g. a…

They've already clamped down on model rocketry as a hobby. I wouldn't be surprised to see restrictions on flying devices capable of carrying payloads larger than a certain size. As you point out, it's not hard to imagine nefarious uses. Which is, of course, one of the reasons we can't have nice things.

"They've already clamped down on model rocketry as a hobby"

Someone should tell these guys: http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/

Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#13

Post by jws »

arethuza wrote: post #12
Natsu wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've already clamped down on model rocketry as a hobby. I wouldn't be surprised to see restrictions on flying devices capable of carrying payloads larger than a certain size. As you point out, it's not hard to imagine nefarious uses. Which is, of course, one of the reasons we can't have nice things.

"They've already clamped down on model rocketry as a hobby" Someone should tell these guys: http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/

They do have to leave their country to pursue their hobby. That may be some evidence of clamping. (they probably have to take to the water for safety reasons, but they seem to go amlot further outthan safety demands.)

Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#14

Post by rdtsc »

patio11 wrote: post #4

Here's a potentially scary thought for you: in ~2000, this would have been proof positive of state involvement. In 2011, this is barely newsworthy. In 2021, this will be about as within the reach of the average middle class teenager as a three ounce device capable of instantaneous worldwide encrypted communication. This is not going to be a happy adjustment for people who have to maintain physical security of e.g. a…

I am interested in what kind of protection or defence is there against the drones. First is how would one detect them and how would one knock them out.

Can one make another drone that patrolls an area looking for these spy drones and then somehow shoots them down. Homes in on them then autodestructs...

A radar + a laser? An EMP device that would fry their electronics?

Would a small heat seeking missile work?

Well then there is always the moral side of it. If it is a plane with a human pilot in it, or a patrol car with a human in it, destroying it is equivalent to murder. Disabling or blinding one of these drones is just property damage.

Yes, this will be used as trigger to start a war: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Georgia%E2%80%93Russia_cri... ) but it is still far from killing a person.

Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#15

Post by burgerbrain »

Natsu wrote: post #9
patio11 wrote: post #4

Here's a potentially scary thought for you: in ~2000, this would have been proof positive of state involvement. In 2011, this is barely newsworthy. In 2021, this will be about as within the reach of the average middle class teenager as a three ounce device capable of instantaneous worldwide encrypted communication. This is not going to be a happy adjustment for people who have to maintain physical security of e.g. a…

They've already clamped down on model rocketry as a hobby. I wouldn't be surprised to see restrictions on flying devices capable of carrying payloads larger than a certain size. As you point out, it's not hard to imagine nefarious uses. Which is, of course, one of the reasons we can't have nice things.

The differences between model rocketry and model aircraft are significant enough that any "clamping down" on model aircraft would not be effective. The materials are too generic.

Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#16

Post by bradleyland »

electrichead wrote: post #2

Hm, I could've sworn I saw this thing in a TED talk recently. It was flying around the room in their demo.

This is not the Festo SmartBird from the TED talk. As noted in the article, there are several design differences, as well as the severe restrictions on weight when it comes to the flight mechanics of the SmartBird.

The SmartBird is a really great tech demo, but ornithopter style flight is not practical in settings like those found in military operations. The extreme weight restrictions, delicate mechanisms, complicated flight, and slow speed make other traditional flight mechanisms far more practical. The small propeller and ailerons are nearly invisible from the ground, and if kept light weight, the sound of the propeller won't be heard over ground noise. There's no reason to use a more complex design.

Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#17

Post by sliverstorm »

rdtsc wrote: post #14
patio11 wrote: post #4

Here's a potentially scary thought for you: in ~2000, this would have been proof positive of state involvement. In 2011, this is barely newsworthy. In 2021, this will be about as within the reach of the average middle class teenager as a three ounce device capable of instantaneous worldwide encrypted communication. This is not going to be a happy adjustment for people who have to maintain physical security of e.g. a…

I am interested in what kind of protection or defence is there against the drones. First is how would one detect them and how would one knock them out. Can one make another drone that patrolls an area looking for these spy drones and then somehow shoots them down. Homes in on them then autodestructs... A radar + a laser? An EMP device that would fry their electronics? Would a small heat seeking missile work? Well the…

You'd need to pick a scalable solution; where we have one drone today, we could have 20 in the same place for half the cost in the future.

In my opinion, the best solutions I can think of are:

1) EMP. May not shut off the motors, but should shut off the brains.

2) Base station with targeting system. Laser would be too slow, too dangerous. Maybe a high-powered water jet. Knock them right out of the sky. Break their wings.

3) A swarm of predator drones. Good ones would not be self-sacrificial.

Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#18

Post by JoeAltmaier »

rdtsc wrote: post #14
patio11 wrote: post #4

Here's a potentially scary thought for you: in ~2000, this would have been proof positive of state involvement. In 2011, this is barely newsworthy. In 2021, this will be about as within the reach of the average middle class teenager as a three ounce device capable of instantaneous worldwide encrypted communication. This is not going to be a happy adjustment for people who have to maintain physical security of e.g. a…

I am interested in what kind of protection or defence is there against the drones. First is how would one detect them and how would one knock them out. Can one make another drone that patrolls an area looking for these spy drones and then somehow shoots them down. Homes in on them then autodestructs... A radar + a laser? An EMP device that would fry their electronics? Would a small heat seeking missile work? Well the…

Jam it. The birds are not (currently) autonomous. A jammer is lightweight, reusable, non-lethal to civilians and simple technology.

Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#19

Post by zby »

Natsu wrote: post #9
patio11 wrote: post #4

Here's a potentially scary thought for you: in ~2000, this would have been proof positive of state involvement. In 2011, this is barely newsworthy. In 2021, this will be about as within the reach of the average middle class teenager as a three ounce device capable of instantaneous worldwide encrypted communication. This is not going to be a happy adjustment for people who have to maintain physical security of e.g. a…

They've already clamped down on model rocketry as a hobby. I wouldn't be surprised to see restrictions on flying devices capable of carrying payloads larger than a certain size. As you point out, it's not hard to imagine nefarious uses. Which is, of course, one of the reasons we can't have nice things.

A sting with poison does not weight much.

Re: Weird, Birdlike Mystery Drone Crashes in Pakistan

#20

Post by DanielBMarkham »

patio11 wrote: post #4

Here's a potentially scary thought for you: in ~2000, this would have been proof positive of state involvement. In 2011, this is barely newsworthy. In 2021, this will be about as within the reach of the average middle class teenager as a three ounce device capable of instantaneous worldwide encrypted communication. This is not going to be a happy adjustment for people who have to maintain physical security of e.g. a…

Several years ago I thought about writing a short story which included an attack/assassination of an important political figure. The point was to do some brainstorming about ways such an attack could be conducted.

After an hour or two, I decided never to write about this subject. The exercise was very eye-opening.

The difference between a normal, naked person and a person armed with tech is increasingly dramatically. I do not think this is a similar situation as we had with machine guns -- you could just outlaw all of them. Nobody is going to want to outlaw RC planes, or wearable cameras, or some sort of AI-augmented robotics. And even if you could, vast numbers of people would simply break the law. Disarming the population is not an option here.

But the trend that you describe is definitely unmistakable.

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