Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#51

Post by mmlkrx » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

I have both worked 32 hours per week over 5 work days, as well as 28 hours over 4 work days. While they both have their merits, I found working 4 days better for my work life balance. I typically work on creative projects on Fridays or run errands. This frees up my weekend and I feel very rested returning to work on Monday --even during stressful times. Strangely, working on a different cycle than most of my co-workers has also increased my focus quite a bit.

disclaimer: I haven't read the linked article, apologies if the comment is slightly off-topic.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#52

Post by trcarney » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #26

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #6

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term. If we shorten the nominal workweek to 36 hours before overtime is required (and encourage this to be in the form of 4x9 or 9/2 * 8): * Supply of labor will fall, increasing equilibrium pay for everyone * Everyone's quality of life goes up * Traffic and environmental impacts from commuting s…

>I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term.

The government being involved is the most likely answer as to why a 40 hour work week is standard and why there are so many "minimum wage" jobs. A funny thing happens when you set floors or ceilings in markets, you hit them. There should be no minimum wage. People excepting jobs will set the minimum wage because people act in their own self interest. If the pay is too low, no one will take the job. This is how labor markets are set everywhere else in the economy, I don't understand how the bottom is different.

The government shouldn't have anything to do with the work week, the market should decide because what works in one sector in one region may not work in another. The government isn't as smart as the entire labor market making decisions for themselves.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#53

Post by Arrath » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

vitno wrote: post #16

4 day work weeks as a concept real clicked for me when put into ratios. It's a 50% increase in personal time and only a 20% reduction in work hours.

One of my most enjoyable stretches at work was when we were allowed to start a project several months ahead of schedule, but only allowed 40hrs/wk until the normally scheduled starting time. My team voted to do 4/10s for the duration, and I argued it through management. We were working out of town so its not as if the longer days cost us time at home or with family, and it allowed for so much more time at home on the longer weekend. It was wonderful.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#54

Post by yupper32 » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #12

teawrecks wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure would be a shame if the employees collectively bargained with the company for more reasonable policies...

Yup… because their jobs may then go abroad as has been the trend for the past 20 years…

If they could they would.

I remember being told over 10 years ago as I was entering the field of software that I shouldn't bother: my job is going to be outsourced soon enough.

This is just a scare tactic with little teeth. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen enough for it to be a consideration.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#55

Post by JohnWhigham » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #26

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #6

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term. If we shorten the nominal workweek to 36 hours before overtime is required (and encourage this to be in the form of 4x9 or 9/2 * 8): * Supply of labor will fall, increasing equilibrium pay for everyone * Everyone's quality of life goes up * Traffic and environmental impacts from commuting s…

Lol, Congress couldn't even get a minimum wage increase with majority Democrats, there's no way anything else about the workweek is changing any time soon.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#56

Post by mrtranscendence » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

seniorsassycat wrote: post #46

I've been working 4 days a week, 32 hours, for 4 years and I will never go back. It has made me hesitant to look for other work, I'm not sure if get the same deal, but so far I'm happy where I am. As others have said the ratios are awesome. I have 15 days off every 20 days instead of 8. For a 20% pay cut, while getting full benefits.

For my geographical area, I get paid what feels like a very good salary (enough that I no longer have to worry about money at all). If my company said “hey, we’ll pay you half as much and you only have to work 20 hours a week” I’d take it in a heartbeat, even though I’d have to start being more careful with money. Sadly, I don’t see that offer ever coming, even though I could totally do my job in half as much time with some creative meeting deletion.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#57

Post by jedberg » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

trcarney wrote: post #52

mlyle wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term. If we shorten the nominal workweek to 36 hours before overtime is required (and encourage this to be in the form of 4x9 or 9/2 * 8): * Supply of labor will fall, increasing equilibrium pay for everyone * Everyone's quality of life goes up * Traffic and environmental impacts from commuting s…

>I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term. The government being involved is the most likely answer as to why a 40 hour work week is standard and why there are so many "minimum wage" jobs. A funny thing happens when you set floors or ceilings in markets, you hit them. There should be no minimum wage. People excepting jobs will set t…

In an ideal spherical cow world, having no minimum wage would work exactly as you describe. In the real world, that's you how get slavery. For many reasons, not everyone has a choice to turn down a $1/hr job.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#58

Post by yardie » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

klipklop wrote: post #25

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't ship pretty much any service industry job abroad.

That’s why they are working so hard on AI, drones and robots.

They are perpetually 3-5 years away. This is why there is a shortage now. We've told an entire generation not to take those jobs, they're going to be automated anyway. 2021 arrives and still no FSD trucks, no robotized fast food, and no last mile drone delivery. Not only did these companies convince investors labor wasn't necessary, they also managed to convince labor labor wasn't necessary.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#59

Post by tsimionescu » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

stackedinserter wrote: post #33

The whole idea that our lives should be divided into seven days chunks always seemed strange to me. If I'm "in a flow", 5 days is too little for me – I almost force myself to switch to "weekend mode". And two days of weekend is too short – I can't travel to anywhere, I can't switch so something else that requires another "flow". Basically, 5-2 cycle gives you sense of having some personal time without giving you any…

10 continuous days of work would be horrible for me, as a programmer, and would probably jeopardize the health and even lives of many blue collar workers. While I think flexible schedules are a good thing, the default for most people is already too many working days in a row.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#60

Post by dukeyukey » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #50

willheis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened to everything it could at least 10 years ago. It turns out that if you want software that works (at all), you need to pay people well, regardless of where they are in the world. Stop reenforcing this notion that leads to massive overwork and burnout in the US (+ Canada). Germany, the UK, Sweden, etc all have much, much better working conditions for software devs and their jobs aren't going away

I hear that many of the European countries have lower dev salaries than the US. So maybe better conditions, but possibly lower pay. Our company just started outsourcing IT 5 years ago. It's still expanding that policy.

> I hear that many of the European countries have lower dev salaries than the US. So maybe better conditions, but possibly lower pay.

While arguably true, it's almost definitely not better conditions to blame. A more likely source is the massive and relatively homogenous US market, a culture open to immigration, and the huge reserves of capital sloshing about the country.