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Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#31

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

willheis wrote: post #14
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #6

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

Obviously on-call has to cover holidays but Christmas eve is a work day for everyone (in an office) at your company? Why stay? That is simply barbaric

As with all things, it's about trade-offs. As much as I dislike this company for its policies towards time off and butts-in-seats[0], I am not on-call and am never obligated to answer my phone outside of work, no one bats an eye at me taking a few hours to make an appointment every now and then, I don't hate my manager or coworkers, and generally little is expected of me which suits me fine because I haven't found IT work fulfilling for at least 5 years.

[0] Which is directly responsible for infecting my household with COVID. Literally everyone in the company has had it.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#32

Post by toomuchtodo »

mlyle wrote: post #26
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #6

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term. If we shorten the nominal workweek to 36 hours before overtime is required (and encourage this to be in the form of 4x9 or 9/2 * 8): * Supply of labor will fall, increasing equilibrium pay for everyone * Everyone's quality of life goes up * Traffic and environmental impacts from commuting s…

You need both: A minimum wage ensures a wage of enough income someone can pay for basic needs (housing, food, health, etc) and ratcheting down the work week distributes productivity gains of capital to workers in aggregate. The former is, arguably, more tenable politically at the moment ("Fight for $15" and so on), the latter likely in the future as the electorate (and the beliefs around work and its contribution to someone's identity) evolves. Increasing the minimum wage would also lift ~20 million people out of poverty (at the cost of about 1.4 million jobs) per the US CBO [1] [2] [3].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta...

[2] https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2021-02/56975-Minimum-Wage....

[3] https://www.npr.org/2021/02/08/965483266/-15-minimum-wage-wo...

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#33

Post by stackedinserter »

The whole idea that our lives should be divided into seven days chunks always seemed strange to me. If I'm "in a flow", 5 days is too little for me – I almost force myself to switch to "weekend mode". And two days of weekend is too short – I can't travel to anywhere, I can't switch so something else that requires another "flow". Basically, 5-2 cycle gives you sense of having some personal time without giving you any personal time.

Probably 10-4 or 10-5 would be more healthy and liberating in some sense.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#34

Post by rectang »

I haven't taken a position which required more than 32 hours a week since 2016. The trick is that I've gotten everything through word-of-mouth networking where my reputation made bargaining down the hours feasible.

Our biggest hiring institutions (e.g. LinkedIn) for the most part don't provide a way to specify that you are only willing to consider "full-time but not 40+ hours". So I indicate "part-time only", but I still tend to get recruiters who ignore that and ping me for 40+ hour jobs.

The four-day workweek will be within our grasp when we can actually specify it in a job search.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#35

Post by GordonS »

vitno wrote: post #16

4 day work weeks as a concept real clicked for me when put into ratios. It's a 50% increase in personal time and only a 20% reduction in work hours.

I switched to a 4-day work week several years ago (maybe 7 or 8, forget), taking. 20% pay cut. Ot really does feel like such a better work-life balance - as you say, it's a much bigger increase in personal time than it is a decrease in working hours.

And I am just as productive as when I worked 5 days a week!

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#36

Post by helij »

I took a new position in March this year and only accepted it after they agreed to 4 day workweek. I took 20% pay cut. One of the best decisions I made in my life. I wish all people who can, to do this. There's nothing you'll miss on Friday or any other weekday and so much to gain.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#37

Post by alistairSH »

swayvil wrote: post #23

You mean NOT extract the maximum return on our labor investment? Lol, no. Sincerely, your ruling oligarchs.

Came here to post something similar. Sort of nation-wide legislation (or some combo of CA, TX, FL and NY going this way on their own), we'll never see it. The ruling class has too much to loose. Even for creates and professionals, where there's an arguable case for higher productivity over 4 days vs 5, I don't see them ever giving up the control granted to them by the 5th day.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#38

Post by nimbius »

throwaway803453 wrote: post #27

FWH has exposed how many white-collar jobs were only full-time in the ass-in-seat sense and how many employees should have Professional Meeting Attender as their job title. I used to be the guy who would champion efficient meeting practices. Now it's the last thing I want given that I can now work-out, make breakfast, do manual labor, etc., while listening to meeting. 4 day work week in grasp you ask ? For many I'd b…

an excellent point. speaking from a more blue-collar perspective, i would argue most "real" (non meeting attender) jobs have been 3-4 day for a long time now thanks to automation and a perverse incentive to avoid paying benefits.

bartenders, repair staff, custodial, fast food and construction have never offered a solid 40 hour week. many of these roles are highly automated and simply do not need a full 40 woman or man hours of work anymore. farming has been this way for a very long time and as such, most farmers wives would take jobs as lunchroom staff for the local elementary school to provide health insurance for the family that a farming job simply couldnt.

what i wonder now is that if this affects 'white' collar workers, will the rules change? will nail-swatters in the construction yard see benefits and retirement? or will an elaborate machination take place to ensure only the cloistered ass-in-seat see affordable flu shots and checkups.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#39

Post by GordonS »

robotsquidward wrote: post #18

As long as a 4-day work week doesn't mean 10-hour work days.

That would defeat the point - time with arse in seat does not equal productivity.

I switched to a 4-day work week years ago, and still work 7.5h each day. I found that I'm much more focused during working hours, and spend less time procrastinating - I'm just as productive as I was before.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#40

Post by ed25519FUUU »

I did a few interviews this year. I specially asked for a 4 day work week. Almost every single recruiter seemed baffled by the idea. One said they offered it but I have to be available on my off day for “important” (they couldn’t give me a definition) meetings, which defeats the purpose.
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