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Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition
71–79 of 79 posts
Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition
#72We're still struggling with the fallout from Pope Urban II starting the Crusades in 1095.
I'd say, still struggling with the fallout of the Muslim conquest of the Maghreb circa 700AD.
Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. The persecution of religious minorities in Europe culminated in the Holocaust, which led to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Don't blame the minorities who have suffered and continue to suffer.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I have always thought this was an ethnic/cultural/social persecution, not mainly religious-based.
Why not both? Romani are an example of ethnic persecution alone, but Jews have to deal with an added layer of religious persecution as well
Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
As I understand it, conversion requires renouncing your previous faith. If you are referring to the practice of baptizing newborn babies, I don't think it can considered a conversion (much less a forced one) at all.
Not really: “Religious conversion is the adoption of a set of beliefs identified with one particular religious denomination to the exclusion of others.” It would seem rather pointless to have a separate terms for “conversion” and “conversion from effectively atheism”. And it’s definitely a forced conversion: the whole purpose is to explicitly ignore one’s will, and is used to “trap” children into religion, generally…
In the case all schools are conversion factories and all children are converted, religious or secular(as far as I know no children are born believing in rational empiricism). Words have set meanings for a reason.
Even so is it isn't forceful-- you'll find children in fact want to be like their parents, and even go out of their way to imitate their behavior and beliefs.
Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cable news is all Senior Citizens while Gen Z is off on Twitch and TikTok Both of those are garbage sources. It's a lateral move, in my opinion.
Cable news reports on the news of the day and generally doesn't lie, rather, they misrepresent. TikTok, Reddit etc. is mostly just fantasy, opinion. Older people are much better informed about current issues.
Cable news has at least some standards they're forced to adhere to. There are some strange, worrying, and literally insane subreddits out there. TikTok is it's own minefield as well
Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cable news reports on the news of the day and generally doesn't lie, rather, they misrepresent. TikTok, Reddit etc. is mostly just fantasy, opinion. Older people are much better informed about current issues.
Cable news has at least some standards they're forced to adhere to. There are some strange, worrying, and literally insane subreddits out there. TikTok is it's own minefield as well
Totally agree, but the net misrepresentation, or strong editorialization from Cable News may actually be more damaging that the perverse stuff on Reddit.
Watching the Kyle Rittenhouse coverage, pre-trial, from Fox and MSNBC was like watching the Soviets and Americans combat each other with propaganda.
Actually watching the trial and the information as it came out felt truly enlightening.
My view is that the press 'narratives', even if they technically 'do not lie' (i.e. standards) are more damaging than for example, QAnon or Flat Earth.
We are being told what to believe and I think this has a much stronger effect than we realize, because it even works on people who are pretty smart. Self Awareness takes effort to accept that there is bias, to really open one's mind, to search for uncomfortable facts, to accept them at face value, and then to think about it outside the concept of some accepted ideology or worldview, and the social/group pressures that apply. It's just too easy to be influenced by talking heads.
Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really: “Religious conversion is the adoption of a set of beliefs identified with one particular religious denomination to the exclusion of others.” It would seem rather pointless to have a separate terms for “conversion” and “conversion from effectively atheism”. And it’s definitely a forced conversion: the whole purpose is to explicitly ignore one’s will, and is used to “trap” children into religion, generally…
In the case all schools are conversion factories and all children are converted, religious or secular(as far as I know no children are born believing in rational empiricism). Words have set meanings for a reason. Even so is it isn't forceful-- you'll find children in fact want to be like their parents, and even go out of their way to imitate their behavior and beliefs.
Religious conversion is by definition a conversion to a religion. In civilised countries schools don't spread religion. Teaching basic rationality and logic isn't conversion.
Catholic child conversion is forceful in that it ignores the will of the subject. You'll find that even though children tend to follow their parents, many/most of children of Catholic parents don't want to have anything to do with that religion once they grow up. You'll also find that the chance of someone becoming a Catholic is close to zero unless they have been indoctrinated from very early age. You'll find a lot of statistics showing both.
Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cable news has at least some standards they're forced to adhere to. There are some strange, worrying, and literally insane subreddits out there. TikTok is it's own minefield as well
Totally agree, but the net misrepresentation, or strong editorialization from Cable News may actually be more damaging that the perverse stuff on Reddit. Watching the Kyle Rittenhouse coverage, pre-trial, from Fox and MSNBC was like watching the Soviets and Americans combat each other with propaganda. Actually watching the trial and the information as it came out felt truly enlightening. My view is that the press 'na…
>My view is that the press 'narratives', even if they technically 'do not lie' (i.e. standards) are more damaging than for example, QAnon
I would disagree here. We are being told what to believe but that's nothing new, just look at how much press coverage minority issues got 100 years ago. Qanon, on the other hand, isn't misrepresentation but outright misinformation that turns some into outright insane conspiracy theorists believing JFK Jr is returning from the grave.
And one of the more insane subreddits, I got linked from a nursing subreddit, is a "penectomy" subreddit for people who want to remove their members, not because of gender dysphoria, but because of a sexual fetish. I regret to say there were pictures as well. That's straight up mental illness, but it's got a whole community to validate peoples delusions. The power to normalize is as worrying as the power to fashion a narrative. It's more than political, it encompasses everything.
Anyone who's been on /b/ can tell you, while the media is awful, places where CP is so common there are memes about it represent another level entirely. In a sense that's being told what to believe through social concensus. It'd sound insane to say one of the most popular websites in the early 2000s regularly had CP posted but it's okay because that's just free speech. Unless you've been there, which many people here have, in which case it becomes normalized and just "one of those bad things that happens regardless of policing". That's so much more worrying to me than governments and the media trying to control information as they always have.
Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the case all schools are conversion factories and all children are converted, religious or secular(as far as I know no children are born believing in rational empiricism). Words have set meanings for a reason. Even so is it isn't forceful-- you'll find children in fact want to be like their parents, and even go out of their way to imitate their behavior and beliefs.
Religious conversion is by definition a conversion to a religion. In civilised countries schools don't spread religion. Teaching basic rationality and logic isn't conversion. Catholic child conversion is forceful in that it ignores the will of the subject. You'll find that even though children tend to follow their parents, many/most of children of Catholic parents don't want to have anything to do with that religion…
>Teaching basic rationality and logic isn't conversion.
Except you are defining what logic is, while many would disagree so it's still enforcing your own world view on others. The only difference is instead of enforcing a creator, it enforces lack of a creator.
>Catholic child conversion is forceful in that it ignores the will of the subject.
I was talking about religion, and now you're talking about the sect of one religion. Are jainists subject to this problem? Buddhists? Is shinto? Your making big sweeping statements and giving granular defenses.
>You'll find that even though children tend to follow their parents, many/most of children of Catholic parents don't want to have anything to do with that religion once they grow up. You'll also find that the chance of someone becoming a Catholic is close to zero unless they have been indoctrinated from very early age
[Citation needed]. Your adding a lot of qualifiers, sure there are statistics that reflect a fraction of what you're saying but you're creating a huge narrative around it that's unfounded.
>Religious conversion is by definition a conversion to a religion
Okay and conversion just means "a change in character, form or function". Sounds like exactly what school is designed to do. What difference religion makes is up for debate-- brainwashing political or social values is just as dangerous for example but you took no issue with that.