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FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

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Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#401

Post by matheusmoreira »

throw_away_dgs wrote: post #230

Some FBI agents came to my house once and told me that my home Internet had been used to visit Islamic Extremist websites. They brought a local police office with them and a 'threat assessment' coordinator from my workplace. They asked me if my family was Muslim and wanted to know if we had been radicalized. We are not religious (at all). We do not attend church, synagogue or mosque. We are lower middle class white A…

That's extremely disturbing. Accessing some random website should never cause police to show up. They should never even know what you did. That's like keeping tabs on what books people read and raiding somebody's house because they looked up how bombs are made.

Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#402

Post by wbl »

throw_away_dgs wrote: post #230

Some FBI agents came to my house once and told me that my home Internet had been used to visit Islamic Extremist websites. They brought a local police office with them and a 'threat assessment' coordinator from my workplace. They asked me if my family was Muslim and wanted to know if we had been radicalized. We are not religious (at all). We do not attend church, synagogue or mosque. We are lower middle class white A…

The only words you should ever say to the FBI "on advice of counsel I am taking the fifth".

Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#403

Post by tw04 »

_xnmw wrote: post #367
tw04 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll be the dissenting voice and say this reads like a “sow discord in the US 101”. Why on earth would the FBI bring both the police and a “threat assessment” coordinator from your work to interview you? Why would your workplace ever agree to it? That screams lawsuit waiting to happen. And on that note, why didn’t you sue your workplace for harassment? Whether you’re religious or not isn’t any of their business and i…

You're incredibly naive if you think this kind of stuff doesn't happen all the time since 9/11. I personally know several people with similar stories in the US.

You know several people whose employers sent someone to their house with FBI agents to harass them about their religious beliefs?? And none of them sued?

I’m not surprised at all that the FBI is harassing people, I find it incredibly hard to believe a private business would touch the situation with a 4,000 foot pole. They have absolutely nothing to gain and massive liability.

Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#404

Post by matheusmoreira »

lrvick wrote: post #341
tw04 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll be the dissenting voice and say this reads like a “sow discord in the US 101”. Why on earth would the FBI bring both the police and a “threat assessment” coordinator from your work to interview you? Why would your workplace ever agree to it? That screams lawsuit waiting to happen. And on that note, why didn’t you sue your workplace for harassment? Whether you’re religious or not isn’t any of their business and i…

A decade ago the FBI harassed me at my home waking me up from sleeping twice and at a past employer before on entirely unfounded claims. They didn't care what the consequences were for targeting someone innocent. They also made nasty threats like "Someone has to go down for this, and if you help us collect intel on your industry peers we suspect then someone else can be that person" I told them politely to go die in…

> Someone has to go down for this

The so called "justice" system, I guess.

Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#405

Post by austincheney »

throw_away_dgs wrote: post #230

Some FBI agents came to my house once and told me that my home Internet had been used to visit Islamic Extremist websites. They brought a local police office with them and a 'threat assessment' coordinator from my workplace. They asked me if my family was Muslim and wanted to know if we had been radicalized. We are not religious (at all). We do not attend church, synagogue or mosque. We are lower middle class white A…

> We are lower middle class white Americans born and raised in the USA and have never traveled outside the country.

I am most curious why you believe that is a defense against radicalization. In the US that is perhaps the most common demographic for radicalization of any type.

Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#406

Post by BeFlatXIII »

throaway46546 wrote: post #358
Eelongate wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what he experienced is another manifestation of the same phenomena as zero-tolerance policies in schools; institutions ask their enforcers to suspend common sense and strictly enforce the letter of the law/guideline/etc, even in situations where any reasonable person would decide it made no sense. They do this because such common sense and gut feelings is how bias and prejudice might creep into their oh-so-pe…

At my school it was worse than that. Any one "involved" in a physical altercation would be suspended. Someone could walk up and punch you and you would be suspended for it. This obviously had a chilling effect on reporting. No more bullying. Problem solved.

Such policies also justify and encourage excessive retribution. If you’re getting suspended whether you fight back or not, may as well cause some real damage to earn it.

Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#407

Post by newsclues »

gruez wrote: post #314
IIAOPSW wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FBI still has buildings named after J Edgar Hoover. That should tell you everything you need to know about their institutional respect for justice and due process.

For non-americans, what was J Edgar Hoover known for?

Being in the pocket of the mob

Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#408

Post by twobitshifter »

ichydkrsrnae wrote: post #284
twobitshifter wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could be the story but since parallel construction is routinely used to hide the existence of surveillance tools and back doors it’s not unreasonable to doubt it. I thought I had heard it was stackoverflow, is that looped in somehow?

I don't recall StackOverflow being mentioned, no, but it's been a few years since I've read it.

https://slate.com/technology/2013/10/silk-road-s-dread-pirat...

Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#409

Post by ChrisKnott »

wbl wrote: post #402
throw_away_dgs wrote: post #230

Some FBI agents came to my house once and told me that my home Internet had been used to visit Islamic Extremist websites. They brought a local police office with them and a 'threat assessment' coordinator from my workplace. They asked me if my family was Muslim and wanted to know if we had been radicalized. We are not religious (at all). We do not attend church, synagogue or mosque. We are lower middle class white A…

The only words you should ever say to the FBI "on advice of counsel I am taking the fifth".

This is awful advice for this specific situation.

OP apparently managed to clear up the mistake without much bother by speaking to them (although they were understandably shaken up by the experience). This presumably wouldn't have happened if they'd done what you suggest.

Re: FBI's ability to legally access secure messaging app content and metadata [pdf]

#410

Post by KennyBlanken »

skinkestek wrote: post #346
KennyBlanken wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram defaults to no encryption, does not do encrypted group chats, has a home-rolled encryption protocol which almost guarantees it's weak as nearly every home-rolled encryption system always is (if not also backdoored). Coupled with it being headquartered in Russia means it is completely untrustable. The only reason Telegram comes out on top of Whatsapp in the document in question is because Telegram is a foreig…

> Telegram defaults to no encryption, This is plain false as can be verified by anyone who can check Telegram GitHub repos or run the app in a debugging environment. Telegram defaults to point-to-point encryption. Same as banks and gmail. Fun fact: back in the days WhatsApp sent messages unencrypted (i.e. as plain text) over port 443(!). > does not do encrypted group chats, again, point-to-point encryption > has a ho…

I obviously was referring to e2ee; everything is point to point encrypted these days. e2ee is turned off by default and cannot be enabled for group chats.

I stand by my assertion that Telegram's proprietary secret encryption is nearly guaranteed to be weaker than industry-standard encryption. "Home grown is always weaker" is a well known position of almost the entire crypto community.

I further stand by my assertion that Telegram's encryption is nearly guaranteed to be backdoored, because there is literally zero reason for a startup to invest the massive engineering resources needed to successfully develop and maintain its own encryption algorithms, unless they were being paid to do so.

The NSA has a long history of backdooring private encryption technology through industry "partnerships."

Do you seriously think Putin would allow a domestic company to develop a communication tool that would allow Russians to communicate with each other in complete privacy?

> prove it or shut up.

Go read the HN commenting policy (specifically around civility) or shut up.

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