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Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

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Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#21
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current leaders are way overpriced IMO ($9 to $49 per month per agent–are you serious?) I'm assuming these services are targeting companies with people working full time on support, where that $9 to $49 is a drop in a bucket compared to their salary.

That's the problem. Even small startups use them. Imagine a 4-person startup with 2 co-founders, another engineer and another designer. No full-time support staff, so everyone jumps in from time to time. Unless you make a generic agent account (which is lame for assignment/follow-up), you're talking $100/mo for support. I don't discount the value extracted but to me it reeks of enterprise, per-seat licensing a bit. I…

As someone who sits on the other side of that equation, $9/month basically translates to "1 support request per month".

I've been meaning to do a blog post on such, but an average single support request costs us around $8. So if you've got a business where the average number of support requests per user are dramatically less than 1.0 per user per month, then it can work out, but I suspect there's a proportional support load to those SaaS systems that you're looking at where it's closer to, say, 0.5 per seat. If you lower the price beyond $9/month, then all of the sudden your profit evaporates.

It's non-obvious until you run the numbers, but it goes something like this:

  Support Person Salary		$60,000.00
  Fully Loaded Employee Cost	$90,000.00
  Per Hour			$46.88
  Support Requests / Hour	6
  Cost / Request		$7.81
That's actually why we removed our $9/month plan. It was just hard to get excited about helping someone out when you realized after the first mail you were going into the hole for such.

The interesting thing for where Bushido fits into that is that in some ways it'd be pushing things towards utility pricing (the same way a lot of the cloud sort of stuff has done) -- i.e. the cost of supporting a software stack would be proportional to the cost you generate further up the chain, rather than based on some metric of an "average customer".

Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#22
post #16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current leaders are way overpriced IMO ($9 to $49 per month per agent–are you serious?) I'm assuming these services are targeting companies with people working full time on support, where that $9 to $49 is a drop in a bucket compared to their salary.

Exactly. Does the app save an hour of an agent's time/sanity per month? If so, it's worth it.

[deleted]

Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#23
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem. Even small startups use them. Imagine a 4-person startup with 2 co-founders, another engineer and another designer. No full-time support staff, so everyone jumps in from time to time. Unless you make a generic agent account (which is lame for assignment/follow-up), you're talking $100/mo for support. I don't discount the value extracted but to me it reeks of enterprise, per-seat licensing a bit. I…

As someone who sits on the other side of that equation, $9/month basically translates to "1 support request per month". I've been meaning to do a blog post on such, but an average single support request costs us around $8. So if you've got a business where the average number of support requests per user are dramatically less than 1.0 per user per month, then it can work out, but I suspect there's a proportional suppo…

If I built a product that allowed you to answer support requests 10% faster, then logically you'd be happy paying an additional $750/month per support person for the software?

Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#24
post #6

I remember when Bushido made the front-page of HN a few months ago (search for details). I was pretty pumped then and am even more so now. One thing that's been on my mind lately is help desk software. The current leaders are way overpriced IMO ($9 to $49 per month per agent –are you serious?) [1], especially when it's best for everyone at a startup to wear the support hat now and then. Not to mention the fact that s…

I think pricing by logins for a support tool is just dumb and prevents you from delivering great customer support. That's why we are working on SupportBee - http://blog.supportbee.com/2011/07/28/why-pricing-by-logins-...

Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#25
Cool!

I'm about to launch something (hopefully going live tonight, announce tomorrow) with a similar philosophy - the economic engine of Open Source needs some more octane!

Hope this takes off, I hope I can partner with these guys in the future.

Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#26
post #6

I remember when Bushido made the front-page of HN a few months ago (search for details). I was pretty pumped then and am even more so now. One thing that's been on my mind lately is help desk software. The current leaders are way overpriced IMO ($9 to $49 per month per agent –are you serious?) [1], especially when it's best for everyone at a startup to wear the support hat now and then. Not to mention the fact that s…

I think pricing by logins for a support tool is just dumb and prevents you from delivering great customer support. That's why we are working on SupportBee - http://blog.supportbee.com/2011/07/28/why-pricing-by-logins-...

Hey Prateek, fancy seeing you here :) We should catch up again soon, I'd love to see how SupportBee is coming along!

Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#27
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think pricing by logins for a support tool is just dumb and prevents you from delivering great customer support. That's why we are working on SupportBee - http://blog.supportbee.com/2011/07/28/why-pricing-by-logins-...

Hey Prateek, fancy seeing you here :) We should catch up again soon, I'd love to see how SupportBee is coming along!

Sure! Congratulations on the launch. As I said in the call, I think Bushido is one of the most imaginative tech products I have checked out lately.

Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#28
I think it sounds like a wicked clever idea.

It also sounds like a recipe for bad-blood in the open source world. It emphasizes owning a repo rather than contributing to one that already exists.

It also seems to push for over utilization of resources. Once you get to say 1-10K installs a multi-tenant solution would probably make more sense. What happens then? Does bushido help you roll your customers into one big app? Even if it's not good for bushido's bottom line?

Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of good and interesting things coming from this. I just also see some sticky situations.

Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#29
post #25

Cool! I'm about to launch something (hopefully going live tonight, announce tomorrow) with a similar philosophy - the economic engine of Open Source needs some more octane! Hope this takes off, I hope I can partner with these guys in the future.

Definitely let us know, would love to hear about it. Anything that helps developers and users makes us very happy :)

Re: Bushido (YC S11): An App Store For The Web That Can Kickstart Your Side Projects

#30
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current leaders are way overpriced IMO ($9 to $49 per month per agent–are you serious?) I'm assuming these services are targeting companies with people working full time on support, where that $9 to $49 is a drop in a bucket compared to their salary.

That's the problem. Even small startups use them. Imagine a 4-person startup with 2 co-founders, another engineer and another designer. No full-time support staff, so everyone jumps in from time to time. Unless you make a generic agent account (which is lame for assignment/follow-up), you're talking $100/mo for support. I don't discount the value extracted but to me it reeks of enterprise, per-seat licensing a bit. I…

you're talking $100/mo for support

You're also talking $20,000 a month in direct costs if you're paying that engineer and designer market wages, or about $10,000 if you're paying them its-not-exploitation-if-you-have-equity-wages. If next to these numbers you think $100 for software is a lot of money, you are not a desirable client.

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