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Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

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Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to wait for further details. RPi has been structure as a for profit company owned by the charity for a long time. This IPO may result in a huge amount of money for that charity. It also doesn't say how much of a stake their selling. The charity may retain the majority share and so continue to have control along with a vast capital reserve to continue doing what they're doing plus a lot more.

The for-profit company has been raising money from investors in order to finance growth. I'm sure that an IPO would result in the charity getting cash but the aim does not seem to be that. Now, the good thing is of course that the accounts of the foundation are public [1]. I am not impressed that only about 10% of their income goes to "charitable activities". [1] https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk…

10% of their income is likely the majority of their profits, which are probably in the neighborhood of 10-15%.

Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The for-profit company has been raising money from investors in order to finance growth. I'm sure that an IPO would result in the charity getting cash but the aim does not seem to be that. Now, the good thing is of course that the accounts of the foundation are public [1]. I am not impressed that only about 10% of their income goes to "charitable activities". [1] https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk…

Under expenditures it has raising funds as 90% of the cost. Raising funds for what?

Cost of production/R&D of the Raspberry Pis.

Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#33
post #9

RIP RPi. I thought the whole idea was to produce boards, priced near cost, for educational/inspirational purposes? ie to give today's kids the same kind of intro to computers (you have to program it) as kids enjoyed with the home computers of the 80's. The profit motive inherent to a public company does not seem compatible with that mission.

As if companies aren't profit/growth motivated prior to floating their shares...?

[deleted]

Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#34
post #8
post #7

Obviously, this gets handled under UK charity law, not US — but I wonder if this would fly in the US. Charities can own for-profit entities, but pay taxes on the Unrelated Business Income. But this is closer to a for-profit hospital conversion on steroids, where the driver becomes the profit, not the the charity. There’s a very obvious conflict of interest between the charity, management, and the public investors, wh…

Related: Some US states have "public benefit corporations", that can (have to) put other goals over stockholders. Can those IPO?

If you are talking about for profit benefit corporations (B-Corps), they can IPO. They are essentially just C-Corps with non-financial tracking metrics written into the bylaws.

Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#35
post #9

RIP RPi. I thought the whole idea was to produce boards, priced near cost, for educational/inspirational purposes? ie to give today's kids the same kind of intro to computers (you have to program it) as kids enjoyed with the home computers of the 80's. The profit motive inherent to a public company does not seem compatible with that mission.

> The profit motive inherent to a public company does not seem compatible with that mission.

You cannot have any kind of a company without profit. Period. I am not sure where the vilification of profit comes from (not addressing you in particular but rather the general concept), its just silly.

Companies have layers upon layers of costs in their financial equation. Employees and ongoing operational expenses being the easiest to understand. If you operate without profit, the company dies. The simplest visual for this might be that if no-profit means zero dollars in the bank account at the end of the year. After all, "no profit" or operation "near cost" would result in exactly this kind of a situation. Which would, in turn, kill the enterprise almost instantly.

If you want a company to produce and evolve products (any kind, physical or otherwise), it must be profitable. Without profit there is no innovation or longevity. At best you get a slow painful death.

In addition to this, the pandemic has to have taught everyone the other dimension of the necessity of profit. When things go wrong --for whatever reason, pandemic, economic downturn, market shifts, etc.-- a business must have sufficient financial backing, reserves and strength to navigate the storm and survive. Without this they would have to instantly lay off massive numbers of employees, shut down operations, cancel leases and contracts, etc.

In short, if you (plural, not addressing the poster I am responding to) care a company --whether it is cause driven or just a good product company-- you have to care about them making a profit or watch them evaporate.

Here's a challenge for anyone who does not believe this:

Provide the names of ten companies of non-trivial scale who have operated with zero or near zero profit for, say, 25 years, without external donations or other financial inputs to make-up for the lack of profit. Just ten companies. If I am wrong, it should not be too hard to present such a list.

Hint: Even charities have to operate at a profit. Without this they would not have people, offices, marketing and the means to perform their stated charitable objectives.

Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#36

It would be nice if they where an open source hardware company. They don't publish the full schematics of anything, which makes it impossible to do low level programming of the thing in a reasonable manner. I'm going to use up the hardware I bought in ignorance, and find better stuff for the future. https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation/issues/347

A lot of times companies like this need to sign NDAs to get the design documentation for the ICs and SOCs needed to even make the thing. If theybhad an open source SOC and ICs then they could do it....

Yes, it all comes down to Broadcom. Of course, that is a choice as well. They could've chosen a more open SoC, though there aren't many options. Most open hardware projects use the NxP (nee Freescale) i.MX series, which have open datasheets and open (with login) reference manuals.

It makes sense that a bunch of ex-Broadcom engineers looking to make a cheap computer to educate children would use their connections at Broadcom to get an old cheap SoC. The closed schematics and bootloader do not matter to teaching kids scratch and python. I guess it isn't surprising that they haven't changed course since they've been so successful, but it is disappointing.

Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#37
post #9

RIP RPi. I thought the whole idea was to produce boards, priced near cost, for educational/inspirational purposes? ie to give today's kids the same kind of intro to computers (you have to program it) as kids enjoyed with the home computers of the 80's. The profit motive inherent to a public company does not seem compatible with that mission.

yea but it turned into a machine that nerds by when they wanna automate something stupid.

Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#38
post #9

RIP RPi. I thought the whole idea was to produce boards, priced near cost, for educational/inspirational purposes? ie to give today's kids the same kind of intro to computers (you have to program it) as kids enjoyed with the home computers of the 80's. The profit motive inherent to a public company does not seem compatible with that mission.

RPi has always been a Broadcom alumni pet project with commercial interest. I am not surprised.

As for the same intro to computers as the 1980s, you can give kids a trash PC and monitor running Linux for less than a whole RPi setup these days and that probably has a better e-waste and environmental outcome too. Oh and the HDMI connector won’t suddenly fall off or the SD card go awry.

The mission of the raspberry pi foundation is to leverage the rose tinted glasses of the past to push a marketing ideology that overlaps with the maker ideology. Everyone can build a business from marketing and label it as “for the greater good” with such tags as affordable computing tied to it.

Prior to marketing fronts like this existing, there was already significant interest in parties doing stuff like we did in the 80s. Everyone I knew had a PC with a parallel port with some random junk hanging off it. Some really weird people still had Amigas held together with tape. I was programming PIC microcontrollers off a cranky old Pentium 90 I found in a skip outside work.

Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#39
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under expenditures it has raising funds as 90% of the cost. Raising funds for what?

Cost of production/R&D of the Raspberry Pis.

That makes sense I guess. The rest going to charity is pretty good then.

Re: Raspberry Pi Trading plans £370m+ stock market IPO

#40
post #9

RIP RPi. I thought the whole idea was to produce boards, priced near cost, for educational/inspirational purposes? ie to give today's kids the same kind of intro to computers (you have to program it) as kids enjoyed with the home computers of the 80's. The profit motive inherent to a public company does not seem compatible with that mission.

> The profit motive inherent to a public company does not seem compatible with that mission. You cannot have any kind of a company without profit. Period. I am not sure where the vilification of profit comes from (not addressing you in particular but rather the general concept), its just silly. Companies have layers upon layers of costs in their financial equation. Employees and ongoing operational expenses being the…

> Provide the names of ten companies of non-trivial scale who have operated with zero or near zero profit for, say, 25 years, without external donations or other financial inputs to make-up for the lack of profit.

Most restaurants. Many did, indeed, "instantly lay off massive numbers of employees, shut down operations, cancel leases and contracts, etc." during the pandemic as a result.

Amazon made basically no profit for two decades, as a fairly notable example. Every penny earned got plowed back into the business. Lots of revenue, lots of expenses, no profit. It wasn't until recently they turned the profit spigot on. https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2014/9/4/why-amazon-...

Uber didn't make its first profitable quarter for a decade. https://www.reuters.com/technology/uber-posts-first-small-ad...

I think you're mixing up profits with revenue. A charity that brings in $1M and spends $1M has no profit, but they can (theoretically) remain a going concern indefinitely at that rate.

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