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Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

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Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#641

Post by lern_too_spel »

dmitriid wrote: post #635
lern_too_spel wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users are easily duped by marketing. Even technologists. You can see how easily technologists buy Apple's bald-faced lies that its actions are not about user lock-in throughout this comment section. I can write a browser using WXWebView that wastes battery outside the rendering code, and Apple won't stop me. I can write a maps application that wastes battery, and Apple won't stop me. But if I write a web rendering en…

> Users are easily duped by marketing. Even technologists. Ah yes. Everything can be explained by marketing, and marketing alone. Poor, poor Google, and Samsung, and so on, who are struggling to find the money and the power to make people buy Android phones through the power of marketing. Perhaps, just perhaps, I'm going on a limb here, Apple actually makes a phone that people want?

We are, in this very thread, discussing a reason why Apple's phones are worse that people have been duped into putting in the pros column. They are also worse for privacy, yet Apple markets their devices' privacy. They are worse for security, yet Apple markets their devices' security. The shoe fits.

Apple has been a marketing-driven company for decades now and is better at it than any other tech company by a country mile. It's why they bought Beats, not for their technology, but for their marketing prowess. The other companies you listed pick features that are better on their devices to market. Apple's marketing department figured out long ago that no such restriction is necessary.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#642

Post by dmitriid »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #641
dmitriid wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Users are easily duped by marketing. Even technologists. Ah yes. Everything can be explained by marketing, and marketing alone. Poor, poor Google, and Samsung, and so on, who are struggling to find the money and the power to make people buy Android phones through the power of marketing. Perhaps, just perhaps, I'm going on a limb here, Apple actually makes a phone that people want?

We are, in this very thread, discussing a reason why Apple's phones are worse that people have been duped into putting in the pros column. They are also worse for privacy, yet Apple markets their devices' privacy. They are worse for security, yet Apple markets their devices' security. The shoe fits. Apple has been a marketing-driven company for decades now and is better at it than any other tech company by a country…

> We are, in this very thread, discussing a reason why Apple's phones are worse

Right now, in this very thread I see no such discussion.

> They are also worse for privacy

> They are worse for security

Worse than what?

> The shoe fits.

It doesn't fit, not really. It's gross incompetence and ignorance to explain everything by marketing and people being stupid.

Because what you're saying, is that a good chunk of people on HN are stupid and are "duped by marketing". That I am stupid and am duped by marketing. However, I've seen and tried the alternatives, and I found them lacking.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#643

Post by [deleted] »

samwillis wrote: post #181
K0nserv wrote: post #153

I've been meaning to write almost exactly this blog post for a while now, glad that someone else did it. Two things that I think are worth calling out: 1. In many ways Apple's anti-competitive behaviour on iOS/iPadOS is a blessing. It's one of the few things that keep Chromium's dominance in check. Of course, it's not great that Apple are stifling innovation like this, but consider the alternative: Chromium dominance…

> 1. In many ways Apple's anti-competitive behaviour on iOS/iPadOS is a blessing. It's one of the few things that keep Chromium's dominance in check. Of course, it's not great that Apple are stifling innovation like this, but consider the alternative: Chromium dominance on all platforms. I think it’s worth noting that (at least I believe) the reason apple limit the usage of other browser engines in iOS isn’t (mostly)…

[deleted]

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#644

Post by lern_too_spel »

dmitriid wrote: post #642
lern_too_spel wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are, in this very thread, discussing a reason why Apple's phones are worse that people have been duped into putting in the pros column. They are also worse for privacy, yet Apple markets their devices' privacy. They are worse for security, yet Apple markets their devices' security. The shoe fits. Apple has been a marketing-driven company for decades now and is better at it than any other tech company by a country…

> We are, in this very thread, discussing a reason why Apple's phones are worse Right now, in this very thread I see no such discussion. > They are also worse for privacy > They are worse for security Worse than what ? > The shoe fits. It doesn't fit, not really. It's gross incompetence and ignorance to explain everything by marketing and people being stupid. Because what you're saying, is that a good chunk of people…

> Right now, in this very thread I see no such discussion.

Look at the first comment you replied to. It's about how Apple restricts how you can browse the web for user lock in but has convinced people it is for the sake of their battery.

> Worse than what?

Worse than Pixels, Android One devices, and ChromeOS devices currently. There are several open source focused devices in the pipeline that have better security design than iOS devices as well but are not yet ready.

> That I am stupid and am duped by marketing.

I did not say you are stupid. I said that people are duped by marketing, and I gave examples. I even pointed out that technologists can be duped, and they are smart in the field they were duped in. Apple's marketing department is smart, and Apple's other employees are smart for supporting their efforts, though when they get caught parroting marketing talking points that are clearly false, it can be embarrassing.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#645

Post by resonious »

addicted wrote: post #316
jasode wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes. Contributing code to something doesn't mean that you suddenly control the direction of that thing. I think the idea of gp's point about others forking code means the forkers can also influence the code because they control the fork . Otherwise, if we take your comment at face value, we'd conclude that Google's contributions to Webkit means it can't "suddenly control the direction" of Apple's Webkit. That's true…

This makes no sense because it ignores the reality that unlike KHTML, or WebKit, the vast majority of browsers were not based on those rendering engines. There was never a time where a web app developer saw your browser was not Webkit or KHTML based and told you to upgrade to them on every platform. There was never a time where KHTML or Webkit completely dominated browser share. There was also a much wider array of b…

I guess the question I'd ask here is: why does it matter that Chromium has massive market share?

The usual answer I see is along the lines of "because Google is too big, has too much control". To reiterate the original argument in this thread: Chromium being open source makes this a hard sell.

Maybe there's another reason I've missed, though!

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#646

Post by executesorder66 »

rvz wrote: post #101
executesorder66 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is not even close to being a contender since it is not cross-platform.

Market-share and global user usage says otherwise. [0] [1] [2] I know it is painful to admit, but the truth is that Firefox usage and market share is in constant decline and the users still do not care about it enough to use it. The decline started since the 2010s and continues to this decade with them still far behind. So to recycle your sentence: 'Firefox is not even close to being a contender since Chrome, Safari,…

> Market-share and global user usage says otherwise.

Ah great. Thanks to Safari's market share I can now run it on Windows/Linux. Thanks that helps me a lot! :D

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#647

Post by smoldesu »

zepto wrote: post #626
ygjb wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a walled garden, the ability to for the user to do what they want, where they want is perceived as innovation.

The user can’t do what they want where they want on the web. The web is an adware and privacy destroying machine.

> The user can’t do what they want where they want on the web. The web is an adware and privacy destroying machine.

Sounds like you're setting a double standard when Apple also runs ads on their devices[0] as well as selling their user's private data[1]

[0] https://stevestreza.com/2020/02/17/ios-adware/

[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2021/11/26/apple-italy-fine-user-d...

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#648

Post by pseudalopex »

burnte wrote: post #617
pseudalopex wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gecko isn't really embeddable. Except on Android.

Gecko was ALWAYS embedable, it was literally designed that way from day one.

Mozilla removed the embedding APIs in 2011. And they were incomplete and unstable before.[1]

[1] https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.dev.embedding/c/c_NMcO-N...

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#649

Post by _-david-_ »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #620
_-david-_ wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Chromium adds more and more bad stuff, it will be harder for Brave to patch everything out.

I suspect they'll eventually just remove capabilities entirely that allow ad blocking and brave will have to completely rewrite it and shoehorn it in.

They are already restricting it with manifest v3. It is only a matter of time until it becomes manifest v4.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#650

Post by bobthepanda »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #562
bobthepanda wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m reminded of a chestnut I was once told; satisfied people generally do not post comments, because people don’t go out of their way to say that things are okay, and your everyday person doesn’t even really post good reviews unprompted, because good service is usually the expectation. People only really get active about bad divergence from expectations.

You never see "Toy Story 2 was ok" spray painted on an overpass. People do voice very positive opinions, but nobody really voices indifference. Further, even extremely opinionated people are usually only opinionated about a few things. Most people are indifferent to most things.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that in the case of positive opinions, it's not super common to leave them unprompted (see: all the popups in apps for "Like our app? Rate us on the app store!") whereas people angry at bad service have no compunctions about finding somewhere to vent, in public if they have to, and are super driven by their agitation.
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