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The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

media.handmade-seattle.com

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Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#31

Post by ncmncm »

TheDong wrote: post #15
1_player wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two huge hurdles that no hobby operating system can realistically overcome, without major tradeoffs (like being 100% POSIX-compatible): accelerated graphics, which in this day and age are required even for basic 2D rendering, especially if you have a hidpi monitor, and a web browser. Everything else, compared to those two problems, is easy stuff. Graphics is just incredibly complex, opaque and obtuse kernel…

I would place "driver support" as on the same level. Porting a web browser to work on your platform (chromium, webkit) doesn't require rewriting the whole thing, and chromium etc already are designed in a way to isolate browser code from OS-specific code (as we can see by chromium code for windows/linux/macOS/android being mostly shared). On the other hand, making it so your OS works with the large number of common U…

Drivers and mind share are the only serious problems. Emulating Posix is not a debilitating chore. The browser can run adequately under OS emulation. Getting Vulkan ported is doable. Anyway, ordinary CPU cores are good enough for all but game graphics.

But the overwhelming mass of devices to drive is the show-stopper. Probably the best that can be done is to implement drivers for Qemu virtual devices, and run under a hypervisor that has drivers for real things.

Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#32

Post by ncmncm »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #24

The GUI is cool and all, but someone could implement that for Linux or BSD. I'm more interested in how the kernel differs from Linux, and what the plan is to increase hardware support (if any).

The future of OS design, if it has a future, is kernel bypass.

The kernel will only manage access to resources, usually described as the "control plane", while the data bypasses the kernel, via the "data plane", handed over to programs. Virtual memory mapping is another dead end. Programs will be compiled by a trusted compiler that makes memory misuse impossible, so there is no need to hide anything.

The huge mass of kernel-mode code in Linux the BSDs, and NT is a major liability.

Of course all the Posixy browser desktop stuff where performance doesn't matter will run under emulation.

Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#33

Post by mananaysiempre »

Flankk wrote: post #2

Using the window as the application launcher is genius. Tabbed windows at the OS level is also great. I'm honestly blown away by this.

Note that Haiku has OS-, or rather WM-level tabs, too, even if they qualify for one of the most non-discoverable GUI features ever[1] (apparently the idea comes from the original BeOS). Their web browser doesn’t use them, though.

[1]: https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/gui.html#stack-ti...

Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#34

Post by jfb »

deusum wrote: post #17
newobj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At last count there are 5 major operating systems with >100M users, how many are required in order for there to be "competition"?

Windows Linux Android based on Linux macOS (based on FreeBSD) iOS also based on BSD So, mostly three. Especially considering the BSDs' wide server presence.

Darwin is much further from BSD than Android is from mainline Linux, and the Android/Linux distinction is entirely sufficient to call them different operating systems.

I think you can accurately say that there are either two or five distinct operating systems in wide consumer use at the moment: Windows and Unix, or Windows, macOS, iOS, Android and Linux.

Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#35

Post by selfhoster11 »

1_player wrote: post #10
Hammershaft wrote: post #3

God I would kill to make the pipe dream of competition in the OS space happen, there are many interesting hobbyist projects like this that just peak at some of the features and ideas that the current dominant operating systems don't touch.

There are two huge hurdles that no hobby operating system can realistically overcome, without major tradeoffs (like being 100% POSIX-compatible): accelerated graphics, which in this day and age are required even for basic 2D rendering, especially if you have a hidpi monitor, and a web browser. Everything else, compared to those two problems, is easy stuff. Graphics is just incredibly complex, opaque and obtuse kernel…

Serenity OS has addressed the browser problem with a shocking amount of energy. If anything, it proves that the dream is possible.

Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#36

Post by abnercoimbre »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #35
1_player wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two huge hurdles that no hobby operating system can realistically overcome, without major tradeoffs (like being 100% POSIX-compatible): accelerated graphics, which in this day and age are required even for basic 2D rendering, especially if you have a hidpi monitor, and a web browser. Everything else, compared to those two problems, is easy stuff. Graphics is just incredibly complex, opaque and obtuse kernel…

Serenity OS has addressed the browser problem with a shocking amount of energy. If anything, it proves that the dream is possible.

For those wondering the SerenityOS demo is also up on Handmade Seattle [0], which touches on the browser.

[0] https://media.handmade-seattle.com/serenityos

Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#37

Post by abnercoimbre »

skywal_l wrote: post #25
1_player wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two huge hurdles that no hobby operating system can realistically overcome, without major tradeoffs (like being 100% POSIX-compatible): accelerated graphics, which in this day and age are required even for basic 2D rendering, especially if you have a hidpi monitor, and a web browser. Everything else, compared to those two problems, is easy stuff. Graphics is just incredibly complex, opaque and obtuse kernel…

Web browsers are not part of the OS I believe. It's an application that can be ported to your OS. Note though that at the same event, a few days earlier, a hobby OS was presented which ship with its own ex-nihilo web browser implementation: SerenityOS [0]. There is still a lot to go but apparently they have: 1. A lot of resources (dozens of active developers). 2. A plan (meaning organization, resources, tooling, etc)…

We should highlight the creator has garnered enough support to work on SerenityOS full-time [0]. That would make it not-a-hobby in some important way.

[0] https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-Ser...

Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#38

Post by open-source-ux »

A very impressive demo. It's refreshing to come across new user interfaces or operating system ideas like this.

I'm intrigued by a comment from the creator: he dislikes Unix. Among many developers, this is tantamount to blasphemy.

It’s a shame the author didn’t expand on his reasons. A reasonable critique of Unix-like operating systems should always we welcome given the stranglehold Unix sways over developers.

Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#39

Post by Jerry2 »

mast22 wrote: post #30

Handmade OS but a mile ahead of Apple with that snap window feature. Just my frustration after using Mac for the first time.

if that's your only complaint, it's very simple to fix: SpectacleApp

Source: https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle

Download: https://spectacleapp.com/

Re: The Essence operating system at Handmade Seattle 2021 [video]

#40

Post by grzm »

Jerry2 wrote: post #39
mast22 wrote: post #30

Handmade OS but a mile ahead of Apple with that snap window feature. Just my frustration after using Mac for the first time.

if that's your only complaint, it's very simple to fix: SpectacleApp Source: https://github.com/eczarny/spectacle Download: https://spectacleapp.com/

Spectacle is no longer being maintained. I find Rectangle to be a good replacement.

https://rectangleapp.com/

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