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Rats in Doom VR

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41–50 of 55 posts

Re: Rats in Doom VR

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moral of that story, IMO, is not "don't do experiments with rodents" or even "bio/psych is nonsense." Instead, the point is that a good scientist has to aggressively consider possible explanations for your data and possible experimental confounds. This is much, much harder when studying subjects that have some agency of their own, like rats or humans.

It gets even worse outside of science. I'm sure most people who've been in the business world long have noticed that attempts to eliminate confounding factors when drawing conclusions are rarely even attempted unless the results contradict what the highest-on-the-org-chart interested party wants it to be (and even then, they're usually just ignored rather than any attack on their validity actually being made). For al…

>but no-one cares as long as the PowerPoint slides say what they want them to say and pretend to be backed by data

I've seen this described as "decision-based evidence-making".

Re: Rats in Doom VR

#42
post #25
post #7

That's just mean. Those poor animals how creepy can humans get. Leave them alone.

How is it mean? They get all their needs provided for, two companions, no fear of predators, and every so often they get put out on a ball which dispenses candy when they run.

Reading the article, it seems like this was exactly their situation. It seemed like it was in the author's best interest to keep them comfortable and friendly since this was an operant conditioning task. He also mentions the only negative reinforcement considered was a puff of air, but he opted not to use it.

Re: Rats in Doom VR

#43

Does anyone notice how he used a trackball mouse design to track their motion in VR? I feel like there is a clever joke in there somewhere.

My thought was mainly "ok how can I build a ball big enough for a VR rig for myself?"

Re: Rats in Doom VR

#45
post #40

To folks saying this is heartless, I'd urge you to scroll down to the "Experiment" section of the article: > I received three 8-week-old male Long Evans rats, Romero, Carmack and Tom. Romero was fearless (more like thrill-seeking) and loved grapes. Carmack was a real architect building around its home keeping it tidy; he was fond of bananas. Tom began shy, but held the most surprises in learning performance. > I spen…

That doesn't really reassure me.

I don't know anywhere near enough about rats in general or this particular situation to say whether or not this is something bad for the rats, but this recounting of basic bonding doesn't really tell me anything.

Re: Rats in Doom VR

#46
post #45
post #40

To folks saying this is heartless, I'd urge you to scroll down to the "Experiment" section of the article: > I received three 8-week-old male Long Evans rats, Romero, Carmack and Tom. Romero was fearless (more like thrill-seeking) and loved grapes. Carmack was a real architect building around its home keeping it tidy; he was fond of bananas. Tom began shy, but held the most surprises in learning performance. > I spen…

That doesn't really reassure me. I don't know anywhere near enough about rats in general or this particular situation to say whether or not this is something bad for the rats, but this recounting of basic bonding doesn't really tell me anything.

Just anecdotally, I had a pet rat as a kid. They're pretty friendly creatures who seem to enjoy company and playtime. Not sure what constitutes "bad for the rats", but I personally think a situation where they're getting food, safety and stimulation would not fit into that category.

Re: Rats in Doom VR

#47

Ahh, this post feels like it's gonna be a footnote in the history of the Meta Matrix.

Why don't we just train rats to react to transpiled digital stimuli instead of CNNs?

Re: Rats in Doom VR

#48
post #6

From the videos, I got the impression that they just followed a straight line trying to reach the food that was in front of them.

thats all that was shown, straight line travel, doors reward with food, running into an enemy blocks travel until enemy dispatched.

I wasnt impressed until i realized this id a starting point and it could be further developed potentially.

Re: Rats in Doom VR

#49
post #46
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't really reassure me. I don't know anywhere near enough about rats in general or this particular situation to say whether or not this is something bad for the rats, but this recounting of basic bonding doesn't really tell me anything.

Just anecdotally, I had a pet rat as a kid. They're pretty friendly creatures who seem to enjoy company and playtime. Not sure what constitutes "bad for the rats", but I personally think a situation where they're getting food, safety and stimulation would not fit into that category.

Regarding playtime, rats love to be tickled. There are many videos available out there showing it. It really opened my eyes to what was going on in a rat's brain that they would enjoy "pretend goring" by their caretaker and found it enjoyable.

Re: Rats in Doom VR

#50

Does anyone notice how he used a trackball mouse design to track their motion in VR? I feel like there is a clever joke in there somewhere.

After this and the recent conversation about the 'rat shadows' setting in Dishonored, I just keep humming to myself-

♫♪♪ The last that ever she saw him ♫♪♪

♫♪♪ Carried away by the Doom-rat shadow ♫♪♪

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