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Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

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Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#371

Post by stupendousyappi »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #351
dralley wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people keep saying this when Mozilla is and has already been vocally fighting against Google's overreaching proposals? There's new headlines about this every few months. https://blog.mozilla.org/en/privacy-security/privacy-analysi ... https://www.howtogeek.com/756338/mozilla-says-chromes-latest ... There's also this: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2020/08/04/latest-firefox-roll ... https://twitter.com/__jakub_g…

Maybe because Mozilla collects a massive amount of "telemetry" on users, in a way that is personally identifiable, despite zero need for it to be so? https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/toolkit/components/t... Or maybe it's because you can toss some money at Mozilla and they'll silently install a browser extension on behalf of an advertising company for a shitty TV show about a l33t haxx0r d00d? By the way, the b…

What is the browser extension incident you're referring to? Can you provide a link to an article or previous HN discussion?

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#372

Post by smoovb »

GNOMES wrote: post #168

I started using Firefox again on my computers and mobile with the hype around Manifest v3 inevitably restricting future adblocking. I see friends switching to Brave, but I dislike how they seem to be focusing their RnD into BAT/crypto features. Firefox also has the advantage of having addons on mobile. It's a pipe dream, but I could see Google reverting to the don't be evil days with the rise of these Chromium forks…

If Brave lets me down, I'll revisit Firefox, but at the moment Brave is the most compelling browser in the space.

Brave is also the closest to the "Let me pay to see no ads" model.

Google could mirror Youtube Premium, and give us ad free 'Chrome Premium' for $x.xx per month.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#373

Post by dralley »

freediver wrote: post #321
dralley wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but nobody on HN has ever - ever - come up with a better funding model for them. It's all complaints all the time and people don't even seem to bother researching what they have been doing lately. It's also fun to watch people complain about the Google situation and then, 10 seconds later, complain about "side projects" which are actual independent sources of revenue. I don't envy the market dynamics of their sit…

A better funding model is right in front of our eyes and is used by almost every other company - sell the product to the users. There is no rule saying that a browser needs to be directly or indirectly monetized by ads. On the contrary, in this day and age, not helping sell more ads would surely be seen as a good thing? So if the browser is that good as a product, it surely will be paid by a percentage of its current…

>10M Firefox users paying $50/year would yield same amount of revenue

The only way that works is if they abandoned the entire Firefox codebase and made another Chrome clone.

Even in their diminished state they still have 220 million monthly-active-users. With only 10 million, they'd have no leverage in the web standards groups, and no leverage with web developers. The Blink monoculture would be well and truly complete.

Plus I'd bet hard cash that even most HN readers wouldn't pay $50 a year for a web browser. Good luck finding 10 million.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#374

Post by Hidios »

defaultname wrote: post #360
tomxor wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a misrepresentation, before even getting into lack of modern feature support, webkit introduce a lot of long lived regressions on each release and Apple have changed various behaviours in non-standard ways in Safari over the years then left them broken and unpatched on old devices (looking at you autoheight iframes). This has nothing to do with adopting standards and everything to do with a lack of resources,…

Lack of modern feature support? This is beyond parody. "What point are you trying to make here? iOS users have no choice but to use Safari." Android users use the browser on their device -- any browser -- less than iOS users use their browser(s). Read the Google corporate propaganda repeated on here, and other platforms provide a web bliss of PWAs, freed from app subservience. Only, not at all.

Agreed but as a read-only user of HN, I am compelled to say that your comment borders on Reddit-like low brow posts that fills most of their tech subreddits. I come here to get a break from all that and get an idea of purely the technical aspect of stuff.

I have not seen such a great community on the internet before, so if you have any recommendations of forums like HN, it would be great!

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#375

Post by KennyBlanken »

dralley wrote: post #304
freediver wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of such an apparent conflict of interest. At the end of the day we do not know how many good ideas (for the users, for the web and for Firefox market share) were silenced because not to upset the feeding arm. And where would Firefox be today if it relied on its own users for the revenue instead? Having your main competitor as your main customer is not a good position to be in for any company.

Yes but nobody on HN has ever - ever - come up with a better funding model for them. It's all complaints all the time and people don't even seem to bother researching what they have been doing lately. It's also fun to watch people complain about the Google situation and then, 10 seconds later, complain about "side projects" which are actual independent sources of revenue. I don't envy the market dynamics of their sit…

How about this for a funding model: tie executive compensation to revenue growth.

Mozilla has had five fold increases in CEO compensation over the last fifteen years, as Firefox market share has gone down six fold. Firefox had ~30% market share in the mid 2000's, and now it has less than five percent market share. Safari has twice the market share Firefox does, by some metrics.

Mozilla has literally paid its CEOs fantastical salaries for driving the company into the ground.

Mitchell Baker made $2.5M in 2018 and now in 2021 she's making over $3M.

Mozilla laid of nearly 300 employees post pandemic because of declining revenue.

Being a browser company and seeing declining revenue during a period when damn near every tech company was printing money because everyone hopped online...that's a real special kind of incompetence.

Then there's the fact that Mozilla insists on having multiple offices in probably the most expensive real estate markets in the world. San Fran, Paris, Toronto, Portland? Not just that, but look at where the offices are. I'm not suggesting Mozilla move out to the burbs, but...the offices are dead-center downtown.

If Mozilla moved those offices about a mile or two from the city centers (or shut most of them down - there's no reason to have THREE west-coast offices, especially post-pandemic), and adjusted C-suite salaries to be indexed to growth, I think that would be a great "funding model."

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#376

Post by Hidios »

tomxor wrote: post #366
defaultname wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of modern feature support? This is beyond parody. "What point are you trying to make here? iOS users have no choice but to use Safari." Android users use the browser on their device -- any browser -- less than iOS users use their browser(s). Read the Google corporate propaganda repeated on here, and other platforms provide a web bliss of PWAs, freed from app subservience. Only, not at all.

Please keep the hyperbole to a minimum, without technical argument it just encourages flamewars.

How does HN maintain such a great community?

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#377

Post by technobabbler »

Qem wrote: post #148
Nextgrid wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you name any major websites/apps that break in Firefox but not in Chrome?

M$ teams web doesn't work in Firefox. I was forced to install Chromium under Kubuntu just to use teams at work, as I avoid to install the crappy full teams application like the plague, given it is proprietary, resource heavy and tries to auto-launch whenever it can.

> crappy full teams application like the plague, given it is proprietary, resource heavy and tries to auto-launch whenever it can.

Sounds like they ported over all the best features from Skype! ;)

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#378

Post by 29083011397778 »

metalliqaz wrote: post #189
samwillis wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. In many ways Apple's anti-competitive behaviour on iOS/iPadOS is a blessing. It's one of the few things that keep Chromium's dominance in check. Of course, it's not great that Apple are stifling innovation like this, but consider the alternative: Chromium dominance on all platforms. I think it’s worth noting that (at least I believe) the reason apple limit the usage of other browser engines in iOS isn’t (mostly)…

> battery usage is the number one KPI people care about. I wish all phone manufacturers actually understood that /me glances at my Pixel 3XL with 3430 mAh batt

My BlackBerry KeyOne actually has a smaller battery at 3300 mAh, but I don't have to charge it every day. I still use Maps and GPS, stream music, and stray from wifi, because child commenter is right - there's more to battery life and screen on time than battery size.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#379

Post by EchoReflection »

I love the idea/ethics of Firefox 100%, but (and maybe this is just a "me" problem/my own lack of technical-prowess) but I actually find FF TOO "secure"/paranoid. Mainly the 2FA is just too much. I shouldn't need two devices to login to my account. Couple that with an apparent bug in FF that always sends the 2FA verification to my old email address (@gmail.com) despite my FF account showing that my email address should be "@vivaldi.net" and I'm over it. Vivaldi is the real winner, not Firefox. Plus the Vivaldi "ecosystem" also includes calendar and email. Browser supports tab-stacking, themes (including scheduled themes, if one desires), support for RSS feeds, and a ton of other features...

https://vivaldi.net/

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#380

Post by Hidios »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #103

It's a depressing situation, particularly knowing that Firefox is pretty much kept alive at Google's whim. It makes one seriously wonder whether it is feasible at all to maintain an independent open-source web browser in 2021. People tend to blame Mozilla's management and I'm sure there have been management failures but I'm not sure what they could do to make Firefox a thriving, independent, sustainable browser. It s…

Would it not be in the interest of Google as well to fund Firefox? I would imagine they wouldn't mind spending a small amount to keep it alive to prevent accusations of Anti-competitive practises? ;)
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