Update on Omicron • Hacker News Board

Re: Update on Omicron

#701

Post by scoopdewoop » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

defensem3ch wrote: post #677

scoopdewoop wrote: post #654

The media and government can't be trusted with germ theory. The whole idea that we have control over the virus and that our actions are tantamount to killing people with it or not is ludicrous. The virus is going to spread, and its going to kill people. People aren't killing each other. We will all catch covid. The "treatment" has been so much worse than the disease. 5 million died due to covid, but hundreds of milli…

hundreds of millions of people will die from the... economy? what? no, i think you got this backwards. nobody is being choked by the invisible hand of the market.

> The coronavirus crisis will push more than a quarter of a billion people to the brink of starvation unless swift action is taken to provide food and humanitarian relief to the most at-risk regions, the UN and other experts have warned.

> About 265 million people around the world are forecast to be facing acute food insecurity by the end of this year, a doubling of the 130 million estimated to suffer severe food shortages last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/global-hunger-...

Yeah, I got sources. Cool downvotes, team. Real meeting of the minds on this site. Some brilliant intellectuals here.

Re: Update on Omicron

#702

Post by throwawaylinux » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #696

throwawaylinux wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what it is exactly you are unclear on, but that is certainly not what I am saying. I'm saying what I wrote no more and no less. If you want to reduce it to a quip it would be the exact opposite, we should get out and live.

"Getting out", as in going outside unmasked, abandoning precautions, if done en masse, will kill many, many people. To believe otherwise is, as someone else further down said to another person who, like you, wants to just pretend this is all over, magical thinking.

There's tradeoffs for everything. We weren't all grandma killing fascists in the previous years for not locking ourselves in our homes and wearing masks and not going to large gatherings and shutting down businesses in response to influenza. Yet the flu killed many many people every year.

We're not hateful anti science bigots for daring to drive automobiles despite that statistically contributing to killing many many people.

There are safe and effective vaccines available and people can make up their own minds to use effective masks and isolate themselves, shut down their businesses, and take advantage of all the online and remote services that now pretty much means they never have to leave their house or see another living person if that is what they choose, and that's fine they can make that choice. That's not the responsibility of everybody else though. This strange collectivism where apparently I am responsible for the choices of others and that I must change my lifestyle to keep you safe is where things are going way off the rails, in my opinion. You keep you safe.

Re: Update on Omicron

#703

Post by periheli0n » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

throwawaye3422 wrote: post #663

I am so tired of this bullshit, it's so damn tiring. Everything feels, just so very useless, its just sad to see how much this thing has effected everyone, everyone I love, every stranger I see, we are all getting pushed to the limits, people are depressed some people are suffering in silence while governments and organizations like the WHO are not telling us exactly what's going on, they change the narrative everyda…

Understandable reaction. Although the underlying problem seems to be the uncertainty of not knowing for certain, and the confusing and contradictory information, and the question of culpability.

Fact is:

- It is quite clear how to protect oneself. Wear masks, get vaccinated, try to reduce contact, keep distance.

- Governments need to balance safety concerns with concerns for the economy and the health system. Not an easy tasks and it's different everywhere.

- The only context in which it is important where the virus came from is science, and perhaps the development of better vaccines and preventing future pandemics. For the individual it is irrelevant.

- The question whose "fault" it is is totally useless. The virus is here and we will all get it. The only question is how we get through this.

Re: Update on Omicron

#704

Post by sebow » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

mise_en_place wrote: post #685

The WHO has lost all credibility in my eyes. I’d bet all of my money on the South African health system, which has not only dealt with HIV/AIDS but many tropical diseases. They literally have the best ID departments in the world.

WHO lost all credibility since ~Jan 2020(If i recall correctly between 1 through 15) when they stated on couple occasions that Covid was a mere "nothingburger", when in fact western journalists have been expressing concerns since late November through December.I understand most people don't consume rolling news or independent reporting, but it is still not an argument. You can't seriously expect WHO to not have the information independent journalists or 'simple plebs' do.

When the genie was out of the bottle(as in containing the virus in China was not possible), they switched gears and went with the opposite narrative, even though not much was known about the severity of the virus besides it spreading very quickly and easily.This is not the scientific method, because if it was you wouldn't firstly claim it was nothing and then suddenly say it was so bad you need to half-ass shut down civilization.A scientific-method approach would have been: "we don't know" until "we do" , not to mention denying the claim it was a lab-leak (which is now the most probable thing).

As they say in politics & propaganda: "never let a good crisis go to waste".WHO and national institutions that were responsible for measures and actions governments should take are fully responsible, but nothing will happen.The fact people still debate about the origin of the virus should be indicative that facts don't matter, but twitter blue checkmarks and fact-checking labels on mainstream platforms do.

Re: Update on Omicron

#705

Post by chimprich » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

techdragon wrote: post #666

Dumblydorr wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the government supposed to convince anti-vaxxers to do what they believe contains micro chips or what they believe is worse than the virus itself? This isn't on the government, this is on anti-vaxxers for swallowing garbage information, hook line and sinker. And you didn't lose 2 years of your life. You're alive, you didn't die due to the pandemic, did you? That's much less than can be said for 5 million othe…

Two years isn’t an inconceivable time to build additional hospital capacity and attempt efforts at preventing normal causes of medial and nursing school drop outs in order to bolster the number of adequately trained medical professionals available to staff those hospitals. In fact a lot of countries have an artificial cap on the number of doctors and nurses which is driven by various medical professional associations…

> Two years isn’t an inconceivable time to build additional hospital capacity

The limiting factor is medical professionals, not adding buildings. You can't train a doctor in 2 years.

> preventing normal causes of medial and nursing school drop outs in order to bolster the number of adequately trained medical professionals

What's the drop-out rate? How would you "prevent" this? Do people drop out because they can't cope with the role, or some other reason? What would the overall effect of this policy be in terms of numbers? I suspect it would be minimal.

Re: Update on Omicron

#706

Post by _moof » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

mathverse wrote: post #605

namanaggarwal wrote: post #578

For those commenting that it's just common cold and about herd immunity, I think we should not miss out on overload on our medical system. This is what happened in India, due to high number of cases (even if mild) the medical infrastructure completely crashed under the load and lead to far more deaths than just a flu could have caused. Wear mask and stay indoors if possible

I am sorry but no. I have already lost 2 years of my life just following and obeying the orders. Enough is enough. This is not on me to solve. The government had enough time to convince everyone to vaccinate or prepare the healthcare sector for influx of cases of unvaccinated.

Over 800,000 people in Europe have lost a lot more than two years.

I understand that it's been a long time and you're frustrated, but this simply isn't over yet, and the consequences are real.

Re: Update on Omicron

#707

Post by chimprich » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

throwawaylinux wrote: post #699

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how owning yourself fixes/changes anything.

That's no problem people who are petrified and happy to be owned by others may continue locking themselves inside their homes. I'm not asking let alone demanding that everybody or anybody else do this, it's just a possible alternative I suggested.

> happy to be owned by others

> continue locking themselves inside their homes

This kind of melodramatic hyperbole makes it very hard to consider your argument seriously.

Re: Update on Omicron

#708

Post by throwawaylinux » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

chimprich wrote: post #707

throwawaylinux wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's no problem people who are petrified and happy to be owned by others may continue locking themselves inside their homes. I'm not asking let alone demanding that everybody or anybody else do this, it's just a possible alternative I suggested.

> happy to be owned by others > continue locking themselves inside their homes This kind of melodramatic hyperbole makes it very hard to consider your argument seriously.

> > happy to be owned by others

The poster I replied to made some weird "argument" about owning ourselves not helping anything.

> > continue locking themselves inside their homes

Not melodrama or hyperbole. Keep shutting yourself in if you are so petrified that you think everybody else must "wear masks and stay indoors if possible" in response to new covid variants as OP said. It's a great way to reduce contact and minimize your own risk.

Re: Update on Omicron

#709

Post by dpark » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

throwawaye3422 wrote: post #663

I am so tired of this bullshit, it's so damn tiring. Everything feels, just so very useless, its just sad to see how much this thing has effected everyone, everyone I love, every stranger I see, we are all getting pushed to the limits, people are depressed some people are suffering in silence while governments and organizations like the WHO are not telling us exactly what's going on, they change the narrative everyda…

> I am so tired of this bullshit, it's so damn tiring. Everything feels, just so very useless, its just sad to see how much this thing has effected everyone…

I agree. Regardless of your beliefs about the pandemic and how it’s been handled, everyone is sick of this shit.

> governments and organizations like the WHO are not telling us exactly what's going on, they change the narrative everyday, apparently its a lab leak

This is because they don’t know. Maybe the Chinese government knows the truth. And maybe they’re telling the truth. But no one else actually knows and so it’s all educated (at best) guesswork and the media prints anything sensational for clicks.

> Apparently the people concerned about governments using this opportunity to grab more power to keep us all in order are crazy antivaxers, the moment you step out of line you become a "non believer" in science

I remain unclear what exact power governments are getting from this. They’re spending hundreds of billions on vaccines and tests. What are they actually gaining?

My impression is that governments are for the most part doing the best they can against a disease we don’t have good tools to fight. The best bet was social distancing until everyone could get vaccinated. Then it turned out that 1) tons of people are refusing the vaccines, and 2) no one ever really addressed the fact that the entire world needs the vaccine, not just wealthy nations.

This is why we are stuck in this shitty state of bouncing between open and locked down to the constant drumbeat of “please get vaccinated”. No one knows what else to do because the alternative of “fuck it” is also not a solution, at least not if you care about minimizing the death toll from this thing.

Re: Update on Omicron

#710

Post by prohobo » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #686

throwawaylinux wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians have had time to start improving healthcare systems. Corporations that currently pay no taxes could help to fund this stuff. Billions of dollars of war industry purchases could have been slightly delayed. Billionaires could have chipped in a bit more, and we could have started ratcheting up capacities and capabilities of hospitals and healthcare systems. But no it seems that's all teetering on the brink o…

I'm sorry, what ? "The ruling class has proven that they don't actually care about anyone else"—yes, that's a reasonable message to take away from the past year and a half... "...So we should stop abiding by all the good medical advice and just party" how the hell do you come to that conclusion? The reasonable conclusion to come to from your first two paragraphs is something along the lines of "So we should protest t…

The interventions promoted by the ruling class to "curb the pandemic" have resulted in 20 million people going into starvation in the poorest countries, restrictions and hardships only being placed on the poor in the richer countries, and no resolution in sight.

Meanwhile, half the population has taken it upon themselves to start dehumanizing the rest because of politics, and all the money in society is funneling upwards to the ruling class while small businesses collapse.

What exactly do you not understand about this? There is no "us" in this situation, just division and demands.