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The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

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Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#41

Post by newswasboring »

Ok, time to throw in the explanation I grew up with. I always thought it was definitive, but turns out its not. Unfortunately I have already passed on this urban legend :P.

On foggy roads in north India, it is difficult to see vehicles on the road. So lights were used to indicate the status of big vehicles like trucks. Two lit bulbs on left and right corners (illuminating Horn Please) meant honk to get a pass. And to indicate you can overtake, the driver could light one bulb in the middle (illuminating a OK) to indicate its ok to take over. Eventually this system was scrapped but the tradition to paint "Horn OK please" remained.

(my god the theory is falling apart in my own head as I retell it).

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#42

Post by elzbardico »

OJFord wrote: post #22
newsbinator wrote: post #8

This isn’t the only “ungrammatical” expression (relative to global standard English) you will encounter in India. Could it be that some person or some company simply put this expression on their trucks (thinking it’s grammatical), and because it seemed useful other trucks followed, until it became the standard? Edit: this isn’t to be proscriptive about what’s correct/incorrect in a given country. My definition of “gl…

What is 'global standard English'? If you're American, consider that I (British) can find plenty that's 'wrong' with your English, judged by mine. Indian English has as much right to its own standard of correct as American English. (It's possibly a more widely spoken dialect! Depending probably on whether we say e.g. Europeans learning with heavy US film/tv influence are AmE speakers.)

For me who am neither American or British, Global Standard English means American English in practice. I may find British pronunciation more logical and easier to understand, I may even prefer the spelling of some words in British English, but English is the world second's language, in a remote team where half of us are not native speakers, it is easier to adopt the most influential version of the language as the canonical one.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#43

Post by koliber »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #12

“it doesn’t seem to make grammatical sense” To people familiar with standard American and British English, perhaps, but it's written by Indian English speakers for an Indian audience. Perhaps it's not ungrammatical in that language variety?

This is interesting. I see where you are going with this.

I had the good fortune of spending a month travelling in India in 2011. A phrase that came to mind immediately when I read your comment was:

photo OK mister

The way it was spoken was not quite a question, and not quite a statement. It was clear what the speak meant though: "May I take a photo of/with you?"

I wonder if this is indeed a way of phrasing "Honk when passing" using a type of pidgin.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#44

Post by jkhdigital »

gpmcadam wrote: post #11
rahoulb wrote: post #9

As someone who has grown up (and learnt to drive) in England - I had a moment of sudden realisation in India. For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of my way" or "watch out!" - only to be used in emergencies. In India, the horn means "I'm over here", to be used whenever you're near another vehicle. Which fits with the statements on the back of the lorries perfectly.

In the Highway Code, letting someone know that you're there is the only proposed use for both beeping the horn and flashing your lights at another driver.

Yes, it’s a bit ironic that the only reasonable use of a horn is often the least likely justification for honking by Western (or at least American) drivers.

As an aside, Japanese drivers flash their lights (both headlights and taillights) as acknowledgement for letting them merge or pass—like the dual behavior of honking a horn as an expletive.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#45

Post by pmontra »

Etheryte wrote: post #32
iso1631 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Indian drivers rarely use their side mirrors" Doesn't matter if the mirrors are there or not if culturally people don't use them.

I experienced confusion about this when I travelled to Indonesia some years ago, but a local taxi driver made it easy to understand: "What's in front of you is your responsibility." It's an unwritten local driving rule and once you know it, the local traffic is considerably easier to grok. No one looks behind them because everyone's agreed that they only worry about things in front of them. If you want to pass a car…

I look at the rear mirror all the time, especially before stopping. Is that car behind me too fast and will crash into me? A taxi decided that didn't like me stopping at a pedestrian crossing a few nights ago and overtook me. I honked and both the people crossing the street and the taxi stopped. I think the danger trumped the rule of never honking at night in a city.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#46

Post by ben_w »

ramraj07 wrote: post #27

A reminder that pretty much no lorry driver in india knows English. Vehicles here have inane phrases like this and it’s for the most part almost protocol to paint them when you get a vehicle of that class. The guy who paints Lorry backs with the company name probably asks “you want the horn ok please phrase right” and the drivers probably like yeah whatever. Not like the drivers here expect courtesy from anyone aroun…

That seems very plausible, along the same lines as western tourists getting a tattoo which says “輕信游客” and thinking it’s a profound quote.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#47

Post by OJFord »

rahoulb wrote: post #9

As someone who has grown up (and learnt to drive) in England - I had a moment of sudden realisation in India. For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of my way" or "watch out!" - only to be used in emergencies. In India, the horn means "I'm over here", to be used whenever you're near another vehicle. Which fits with the statements on the back of the lorries perfectly.

> [in England ...] For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of my way" or "watch out!" - only to be used in emergencies.

That is not the correct use in England, especially not 'get out of my way' (emergency services' vehicles aside) - and it needn't be an emergency (uh, again!).

It's only supposed to be used to alert other drivers to your (non-stationary) presence, when it appears they haven't seen you or may not be afforded the opportunity - on a winding country road for example, less than two cars wide, it's common to sound it before a blind corner so that if you get one back you can both negotiate a careful passing, or the other car can pull over for you if they have the chance.

Which is pretty similar to what you describe in India really, just quite a different bar for when you need to warn of your presence!

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#48

Post by srini_reddy »

ramraj07 wrote: post #27

A reminder that pretty much no lorry driver in india knows English. Vehicles here have inane phrases like this and it’s for the most part almost protocol to paint them when you get a vehicle of that class. The guy who paints Lorry backs with the company name probably asks “you want the horn ok please phrase right” and the drivers probably like yeah whatever. Not like the drivers here expect courtesy from anyone aroun…

Considering the HDI parameters of Tamilnadu, I would say that auto campaign worked very well too.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#49

Post by OJFord »

jkhdigital wrote: post #44
gpmcadam wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Highway Code, letting someone know that you're there is the only proposed use for both beeping the horn and flashing your lights at another driver.

Yes, it’s a bit ironic that the only reasonable use of a horn is often the least likely justification for honking by Western (or at least American) drivers. As an aside, Japanese drivers flash their lights (both headlights and taillights) as acknowledgement for letting them merge or pass—like the dual behavior of honking a horn as an expletive.

That's common in the UK too. Rear warning lights that is, can't imagine when headlights would be in the right place for it; they're more often used by the other person in that scenario - 'after you'.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#50

Post by phillc73 »

OJFord wrote: post #36
phillc73 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed this repetition for the first time in South African English. The phrase "just now" means sort of now-ish, maybe in the next 30 minutes, maybe even tomorrow. Whereas the phrase "now now" means immediately.

Ha, interesting. (From comments I gather you're in the UK, but for the benefit of others 'just now' here would be a very short time ago; in the past: phillc commented just now .) I've struggled to explain the nuanced variations in meaning of 'quite' in BrE to a Canadian, depending on tone and other words that really have no right to make any difference. (Think 'quite nice' vs. 'really quite nice'; 'a bit' vs. 'quite…

I might still use "just now" in future tense. "I'll do that just now." However, to me, this would mean very soon. Not necessarily in South Africa. "I'll be there just now" - you might be waiting for a while! It took me quite some time to adapt my expectations.
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