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Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

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Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#21

Post by JavaBatman »

teleforce wrote: post #7

Apparently, there are many other major religious persecutions that are not well-known today. These include the Nguyen Lords persecutions and ethnic cleansing of Chams people that used to live and control more than half of modern Vietnam, for more than a thousand years [1],[2]. Interestingly, both of the Catholic Church of Spain and Nguyens Lords of Vietnam regimes employed Pig or Pork Policy as a control measures to…

> Apparently, there are many other major religious persecutions that are not well-known today.

Yup, like the Coptic Christians of Egypt. Or Christians in the Middle East/Near East more generally.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#22

Post by asimjalis »

The causality might go the opposite way. Maybe areas with poorer economies were more prone to persecuting minorities. So it’s not the persecution that led to the poor economy, but the poor economy that led to the persecution. Or maybe a third factor drove both of these things.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#23

Post by JavaBatman »

Makes sense at face value. Generally speaking, religious minorities tend to perform better economically than the majority religious group(s) since they have to work harder to overcome institutional and historical hurdles placed in their way. So when they are persecuted, their economic productivity is reduced. Quite simply, they are either killed, flee, or are reduced to poverty. All of these affect economic performance. We see this today with the Christian minorities in the Middle East and Near East (Copts in Egypt, Syriacs in Syria, Assyrians in Iraq and Turkey, Armenians in Turkey, etc.).

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#24

Post by sofixa »

noduerme wrote: post #13
teleforce wrote: post #7

Apparently, there are many other major religious persecutions that are not well-known today. These include the Nguyen Lords persecutions and ethnic cleansing of Chams people that used to live and control more than half of modern Vietnam, for more than a thousand years [1],[2]. Interestingly, both of the Catholic Church of Spain and Nguyens Lords of Vietnam regimes employed Pig or Pork Policy as a control measures to…

Funny, but the first thing that came to my mind reading the study abstract was ham in Spain - particularly its ubiquity in Andalusia, where I lived for a few years. There are only two kinds of restaurants in Granada - those that serve ham, and those that are Halal. I developed a theory that it had to do with forcing pork onto Muslim and Jewish populations during the Reconquista. It still serves as a form of self-segr…

Oh yes, it was used as test and for persecution. To circumvent that, Andalusian cuisine even had fake pork meals, to keep suspicion low. (Can't find the source now, but it IIRC it was an article about a book on Andalusian cuisine in general, and it was mentioned in passing).

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#25

Post by sofixa »

asimjalis wrote: post #22

The causality might go the opposite way. Maybe areas with poorer economies were more prone to persecuting minorities. So it’s not the persecution that led to the poor economy, but the poor economy that led to the persecution. Or maybe a third factor drove both of these things.

The Spanish Inquisition was centrally ordered and to an extent managed, not spontaneous local events. Unless they specifically targeted poorer areas, which isn't impossible but is unlikely ( if they killed or expelled infidels, guess who got to keep the gold/money/property?), causality seems more probable to be in the way Spanish Inquisition -> poverty.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#26

Post by atdrummond »

jollybean wrote: post #15
square_usual wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa, I've never heard of that one before. Any off the wall homepage with mid-2000's aesthetics that lays it out for me?

There are TikTokers with a lot of influence promulgating it from their basements. The vast number of commentators seem to be taking the insanity at face value. A lot of comments like 'Wow, that's an interesting perspective' of 'I've never heard that, they don't teach us everything in school'. While I'm not worried about that meme, it's just shocking to see how easy it is to delude people. Combined with the Pew pollin…

1. The creator pushing this is Momlennial (Donna). She’s almost certainly not meaning for her content to be taken seriously.

2. Even if she was serious, the reaction amongst most users has been extremely incredulous and negative. Her follower count has stalled/slipped and the various anthropology/history/other social science creators have had a great time debunking her.

3. If you’re not seeing the negative assessments of her content in her interactions, it’s due to how she handles contradicting comments and duets/stitches.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#27

Post by ciberado »

jganetsk wrote: post #10
new_realist wrote: post #8

The persecution of religious minorities in Europe resulted in a very secular Europe—-because many of them fled—-and a very religious America, because that’s where they all went.

No. The persecution of religious minorities in Europe culminated in the Holocaust, which led to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Don't blame the minorities who have suffered and continue to suffer.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have always thought this was an ethnic/cultural/social persecution, not mainly religious-based.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#28

Post by jsmith99 »

bobthechef wrote: post #19

I can't read the article, but the Spanish Inquisition is generally misunderstood in the historical context and innumerable myths have been spun about the affair through later Protestant leaflets and the like (outrageous claims of the genocide of millions, for example, compared to the actual 3,000-5,000 executed over the course of close to four centuries; compare this to the 150,000 secular witch burnings during the s…

Is 'widespread social unrest' an euphemism for the pogroms and riots such as the 1391 massacre of Spanish Jews, culminating in (a century later) all Jews being thrown out of Spain with little more than the shirts on their backs?

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#30

Post by ggm »

new_realist wrote: post #8

The persecution of religious minorities in Europe resulted in a very secular Europe—-because many of them fled—-and a very religious America, because that’s where they all went.

The enlightenment exploded after the Lisbon earthquake. Atheism took off. I don't think it was religious persecution as much as the emergence of secular philosophy and science.
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