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Update on Omicron

who.int

511–520 of 794 posts

Re: Update on Omicron

#511
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was shocked to discover, several months after the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were approved in America and trumpeted as proof of the speed and efficacy of our modern, capitalist medical system... that the Sinopharm and Sputnik V vaccines were both released much earlier, and they actually work very well.

Do we know how well they work yet, really? (Genuine question) They were released earlier, though I got the impression they were released really without very much phase 2/3 testing at all. If you think the anti-vax folks are having a field day with the current western vaccines being given special accelerated roll-out...

It's been approved in a number of countries but still doesn't have WHO or European approval.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01813-2

Not being approved could very well be a political move on Europe's part - they have plenty of motives not to approve it, and equally they have plenty of reasons not to trust Russia's claims. In my country it was a running joke that if it's ever available here, the viles would be laced with novichok.

The paper is somewhat questionable though as it shows a 100% effectiveness against severe infection.

Most likely it is a similar effectiveness to other adenovirus based vaccines, which is less than mRNA vaccines, but still better than no vaccine. It has been reported that some countries are paying close to $20 per dose, so it's not any cheaper than mRNA vaccines.

Re: Update on Omicron

#512

Ok, my 2 cents. This happened because there isn’t enough vaccines in third world countries. They can’t afford them. The moral of the story? It doesn’t matter if you 100% vaccinate your western country. We’re all in this together. When COVID spreads in Africa and makes a new strain, it may as well be on your own doorstep. The world needs to step up and distribute vaccines to every corner of the globe, for FREE, or we’…

I'm living in a third-world country (Kazakhstan). Plenty of people here are against any vaccination. Plenty of people are vaccinated, but strongly against any re-vactination. I don't know why that happens, why west was able to vaccinate majority of people. Vaccine is not an issue here, it's free, you just spend a hour and get vaccinated in a nearby hospital. Government is trying to push vaccination through their throats, but it is met with extreme resistance (and some dirty politicians are even building their agenda on anti-vaccination).

I guess, we don't have good enough brain washing media compared to a civilized world. And when people are using their own heads, without trusting government, it sometimes results in a wrong common knowledge.

Re: Update on Omicron

#513
post #157
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fauci told 60 Minutes on March 8th, 2020: > “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their…

Yeah, and humanity used to believe in miasma theory too. Fauci being wrong and then correcting himself later is a good thing, actually.

Fauci provably lied to congress about gain of function research funding. Is that a "good thing" too?

Re: Update on Omicron

#514
post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally know wealthy, educated, analytical people who have bought into the fearmongering and propaganda Same, including medical professionals who fit this description. It's clearly an emotional and tribal issue at this point. The animating factor of nearly all of this denialism is a narrative of distrust and outright animus for the "establishment" and the organizations that represent it.

I think this hits the nail on the head. That the academic space is not just dominated, but overtly hostile to right wingers probably worsens this. Why would they trust advice given by people who proclaim their hatred of them?

>academic space is...overtly hostile to right wingers...

>Why would they trust advice given by people who proclaim their hatred of them?

1. It's all institutions, not just academia.

2. The "right winger" narrative seems to be that everyone is overtly hostile to them (media, academia, Hollywood, scientists, health organizations, voting machine manufacturers, pharma companies, Dr. Fauci, Big Bird, etc.), which apparently somehow justifies all sorts of irrational and anti-social behavior.

3. Deciding whether something is factual based on how you think the people communicating it feel about you is flawed, to put it mildly. But, if you can convince someone that it's a valid approach, then you can manipulate them against all reality.

I do think that poor critical thinking skills, as exemplified in your rationalization here, do play a major role in how we got here though.

Re: Update on Omicron

#515

The omicron variant could be a blessing in disguise if the early stories on how it is less deadly checks out. That means people refuse to get the vaccine shot will be infected with the omicron variant with relatively low consequence and get immunity that way. Btw this is how it suppose to work. The virus has no incentive to kill its host. The variant that is fast spreading and less deadly eventually wins out.

Too bad most of the media (and apparently most of HN?) are into natural immunity denialism.

Re: Update on Omicron

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Watching the people around me has stirred in me many new questions. Have you ever considered they might have a point? More and more data is coming out, like https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.107... , in the highest-impact cardiology journal, showing that the mRNA vaccines are not particularly "safe" by any reasonable interpretation of the word.

You should probably read the "Expression of Concern" that the AHA has already attached to that abstract (it's a link under the title); namely the part that says "...there is no data in the abstract regarding myocardial T-cell infiltration, there are no statistical analyses for significance provided, and the author is not clear that only anecdotal data was used." (They also mention the typographical errors, but I didn…

>Also, and this is something I'm not clear on, but is this just an abstract? It doesn't seem like there's an associated paper or any data beyond what's mentioned there.

It's from a report presented at the American Heart Association (AHA) Scientific Sessions 2021; https://www.thecardiologyadvisor.com/home/topics/acs/acute-c... . Presumably the actual paper is upcoming.

>"...there is no data in the abstract regarding myocardial T-cell infiltration, there are no statistical analyses for significance provided, and the author is not clear that only anecdotal data was used."

Presumably deeper analysis will be presented in the actual paper. The author claims the data is from 566 people at a preventative cardiology practice, so unless the PULS measurements have an incredibly high degree of variance, it'd be quite unlikely to see such a large increase in the underlying factors measured purely by chance when there are 500+ samples.

>they don't compare mRNA vaccine recipients to people who have recovered from COVID-19

This would be useful for comparing the relative safety of the mRNA vaccines vs getting covid. Such comparison is however not necessary to assess the safety of mRNA vaccines; an mRNA vaccine does not become safe just because covid is more dangerous. The absolute, not relative, risk is important to know as even if the risk of covid is greater, the chance of getting covid is not 100%. And with regular boosters, one might be exposed to the risk of the mRNA vaccine more often than one is exposed to the risk of covid.

> the PULS test the publishing doctor developed doesn't seem to explain how it turns a set of arbitrary biological markers into a score that correlates to risk of heart issues

https://pulstest.com/articles/analytical-performance the PULS test "measures the most clinically-significant protein biomarkers that measure the body's immune system response to arterial injury". There's peer-reviewed research demonstrating its effectiveness: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23530883/.

"The original studies for the PULS Cardiac Test were initiated at Stanford University and Kaiser Permanente. Researchers analyzed gene expression profiles in the lesions of mouse models of ACS (mice do not form hard plaque) . Over 250 candidate proteins were identified in mice lesions and many of them were shown to be conserved in humans by analysis of soft lesions during CABG. The number of biomarker candidates was narrowed from 50 to 9 pathways during additional studies. Various permutations of these biomarkers with existing biomarkers like LP-PLA2 and hsCRP, and global risk factors were tested by 3 software systems (Akaike, Bayesian, and Drop-inDeviance) to predict a 5 year risk of ACS. This process resulted in all three systems identifying the same 9 biomarkers and 4 global risk factors (age, sex, diabetic status, and family history). These biomarkers and global risk factors were then incorporated into a benchmark algorithm format with performance superior to gold standard measures of risk such as Framingham, Reynolds, etc. The resulting algorithm yielded a clinical net reclassification index of 43% (this index penalizes an algorithm for falsely up-classifying and down-classifying patients; values above 10% when compared to Framingham are considered good). The algorithm (PULS) was then independently validated by the NIH NHLBI group in MESA which confirmed the findings. These clinical trials were all longitudinal outcome-based studies."

Re: Update on Omicron

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That statement hasn't been proven wrong.

Proven, no. But our current best theory after 100 yeasts says “yes, it seems dice is played.” It’s the deterministic curmudgeons who keep trying to find a way to ignore that!

All that's proven is that statistical models are a good fit for something we don't really understand. No different than using epicycles to solve the problem of planetary motion.

Re: Update on Omicron

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't personally believe this, but I know some people who claim that Robert Malone who invented mRNA is saying that the mRNA vaccines are more likely to create worse mutations of the disease. It seems more intuitive that getting vaccinated is the best way to prevent mutations but I'm curious if there is a good response to people who do have these concerns about the mRNA vaccines.

Looks like no one answered your question here. Just tried to shoot your messenger. Was hoping for something more substantial.

[deleted]

Re: Update on Omicron

#519
post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it turns out that it is indeed extremely mild, does not cause deaths, and an infection with it confers immunity to covid in general, shouldn't it be allowed to run like wildfire?

In the very unlikely event it actually had a 0.00% death rate that would be the most likely response (because places would lift all their restrictions). The harder question is what to do if it is milder than delta, but still potentially deadly

Presumably you develop a vaccine that targets this variant and give it to the most vulnerable while those outside the risk group don’t need it. That’s how rabies vaccine works: most people don’t get it but those who work with animals may since they are at an increased risk.

Re: Update on Omicron

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's plausible, but it's not the whole picture. It may only partially explain some of the problem. We have, in the wealthy west, millions of vaccine-hesistant and vaccine-denialist people. I'm not just talking about poor or uneducated people, either. I personally know wealthy, educated, analytical people who have bought into the fearmongering and propaganda. I was shocked to find how deeply skeptical they were. I w…

I don't personally believe this, but I know some people who claim that Robert Malone who invented mRNA is saying that the mRNA vaccines are more likely to create worse mutations of the disease. It seems more intuitive that getting vaccinated is the best way to prevent mutations but I'm curious if there is a good response to people who do have these concerns about the mRNA vaccines.

Leaky vaccines in general can create worse mutations of the disease, not specific to mRNA vaccines. See Marek’s disease:

> The first Marek's disease vaccine was introduced in 1970. The disease would cause mild paralysis, with the only identifiable lesions being in neural tissue. Mortality of chickens infected with Marek's disease was quite low. Current strains of Marek virus, decades after the first vaccine was introduced, cause lymphoma formation throughout the chicken's body and mortality rates have reached 100% in unvaccinated chickens. The Marek's disease vaccine is a "leaky vaccine", which means that only the symptoms of the disease are prevented.

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