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How to Save a Ski Town

outsideonline.com

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Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#111

Post by erikpukinskis »

cjohnson318 wrote: post #102
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #86

The problem is pretty simple; the stock of mountain resort towns has not kept up to satisfy demand. Imagine 15 or 20 years ago, a trip to a somewhat remote mountain town had a lot of inconveniences like bad internet, unpredictable weather/travel conditions, etc. In the current year, it's very easy to book an entire trip to Vail/Tahoe in 30 minutes. The amenities and infrastructure are decent making it a viable place…

In New Mexico, if you want to hunt from out of state, you have to go through a lottery system. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. I think global warming is going to make it harder for "mountain resort town" supply.

Is your hypothesis that it won’t snow anymore?

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#112

Post by toast0 »

pomian wrote: post #26

We have seen this issue locally and traveling, North America and Europe. A very good solution, but requiring cooperation and strong town Council (and perhaps some retro-action) is that every single business in town, provides staff housing - alternatively builds staff housing above their business. Imagine if their was an apartment for every employee.

That works numerically, but having housing directly connected to your job is very prone to abuse.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#113

Post by cjohnson318 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #111
cjohnson318 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New Mexico, if you want to hunt from out of state, you have to go through a lottery system. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. I think global warming is going to make it harder for "mountain resort town" supply.

Is your hypothesis that it won’t snow anymore?

That there's going to be shorter seasons, and the snow line is going to move up. This is already starting to happen.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#114

Post by mthoms »

kernoble wrote: post #98
ghaff wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>IMO I think the only solution is to create more mountain towns and ski resorts. Almost impossible given environmental constraints. (Whether one agrees or disagrees.) Even expanding existing resorts is tough. And it's not clear the economics are there given demographics even leaving aside any climate change factors. ADDED: More rural towns with very limited facilities may be possible given Starlink, etc. But they're…

I'm pretty sure > the only solution is to create more mountain towns and ski resorts was meant as a strawman.

Like the person you're responding to, I didn't get that impression.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#115

Post by mthoms »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #76
reducesuffering wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lift tickets are like 2x what they were 7 years ago. Prices are matching demand, I doubt it's vice versa. Personally, I think social media is the culprit for the increased demand. Previously people in most places barely knew skiing was an accessible thing to do. Now you have mimetic desire from their friends posting glamor shots at the resort for all to see.

Day lift tickets are up, but season passes aren't changing much. The model is just pushing people to pre-commit to purchasing.

Anecdotally, in Whistler (now owned by Vail), day tickets are nearly double what they were a decade and a half ago. While season passes are nearly half the price.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#116

Post by Wiseacre »

bamboozled wrote: post #30

Same thing is happening in Asia. I know a few local towns, one in particular where some foreign guy now has his Japanese real estate license and access to a bunch of foreign investors looking for places. It's becoming an unmitigated disaster. The population of the town is somewhat severely aged; However, rather than that being an opportunity for young people to get a start, this property snake steps in an steals ever…

Are you not also the foreigner pushing out locals? Couldn't you have that sense of community back where you moved from?

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#117

Post by snowwrestler »

verve_rat wrote: post #44
bamboozled wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your read the article, they cover this topic. There's also a kind of preservation of the culture of the town. Which I kind of agree with. Then there is also the fact that a lot of these places aren't used for housing, they're used as play houses or AirBnB's. So just adding more houses will likely mean more empty stuff in the town, probably making the problem worse.

So make empty houses (and AirBnB's) illegal (aka super taxed out the wazzoo). The people that live in a place should be able to say what they do and do not want in their town.

It’s not hard to come up with solutions that seem likely to work (build a ton of new housing, tax unoccupied housing, etc). It’s hard to come up with solutions that seem likely to work and will be selected democratically by the voting populace.

This is true in general; it’s completely obvious how to end the COVID pandemic and stop global warming (universal vaccination and massive reduction in burning fossil fuels, respectively). But people will just not choose these obvious options.

If you can figure out why, and how to change that, you’ll have an incredible life ahead of you in politics.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#118

Post by mthoms »

jeffbee wrote: post #85
mastax wrote: post #2

I imagine the Swiss have dealt with similar situations, I wonder what they would suggest? Pay employees way more is probably step one. I'm the "build more housing" guy, but it looks like the Swiss have chosen a different path?

In Switzerland I can walk out of my urban flat carrying my skis, get on a train, and get dumped at the base of a lift an hour or two later. One or two-transfer public transportation from city center to base lift. There's no reason you have to live at the ski areas.

>There's no reason you have to live at the ski areas.

For you maybe.

There is lots of good reasons to live there if it's your passion. As in, you expect to be on-hill three or more days a week. Not to mention: Just getting there before the crowds arrive is a game changer.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#119

Post by 3finmunchousen »

boringg wrote: post #50

One of the biggest problems that is hitting ski towns is the hyper cheap season passes that everyone buys. The model has created a huge surge of demand for people to go skiing in winter which has put pressure on the local ski towns (more short term rental demands, second home buyers) and the resources at ski mountains (aka the insane lines on a good ski day now). It's interesting because it has allowed a lot more peo…

Been looking through the Vail annual reports. In FY 2010 Season/Epic passes were 35% of ticket revenue, FY 2019 it was 47%, FY 2021 61%. I think your theory has legs.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#120

Post by mthoms »

umeshunni wrote: post #75
bamboozled wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd imagine these towns survived just fine without AirBnBs for the last hundreds of years?

Yes and I'm sure they'll be content going back to the standards of living from hundreds of years ago.

What does AirBnb have to do with the overall standard of living for mountain residents?
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